slygunner, It's a pretty good little "jump to the lands" in my Savage VLP also but loads that are 60/1000's to 80/1000/s have shot just as well as the 20-30 off loads have. Factory loadings are 160/1000's off in my Savage! As far as advertised velocity-----factory 32's have averaged 4149fps for about 80 rounds over the chrony! I was getting consistent 3/10's out of the 32's using 28.3 of H4895 and they average 4089fps for me. The AA2230 loads listed in my post somewhere on this board are when the velocities got up to and surpassed advertised data!! Start your work with the 2230 at 26.5 grains of 2230!!!! Work up in small increments and I'll bet when you get up to about 27.7-28.0 you'll see some rather high numbers and still no pressure signs! Your ADL has a 24" barrel vs the Savage and Ruger 26" barrels but I'm betting there won't be a great amount of speed loss from those 2" using the fast burning powders!!! As far as a light varmint rifle, the ADL would be my choice to work with! Affordable and light and accurracy from the synthetic ADL's has always been acheivable to me from the time they started building them!! GHD

Dawg16: First of all welcome to the AR site and thank you for finally posting! I wish more folks would post! I get dozens of private E-mails a month inquiring about things lots of folks would be interested in! I heartily endorse everyone posting with opinions and questions and just relaying their experiences!
To comment on your observations or what I take as the gist of your posting let me state this - just because a bullet HAS TO make a long jump to first engage the leades of a guns Rifling DOES NOT mean that you will automatically have an inaccurate load or factory cartridge! I have proven this to myself dozens of times over the decades! I presently own many many Rifles that due to long throating AND/OR short magazines the bullet must make a long "flight" to first engage the rifling! These Rifles shoot very well indeed or they would not be in my arsenal!
Granted I think in the long run bullets that can be made (or bought) that make very short "jumps" to the Rifling are usually easier to dial in real good accuracy with. But again I have many Rifles where the bullets are jumping more than 1/10th of an inch to the rifling and I am satisfied with them accuracy wise!
The same situation (lack of absolute mandates!) exists with action bedding and free floating barrels. I have many dozen Rifles right now that shoot just wonderfully with no custom action bedding and some have barrels that ride wood or fiberglass for a long way! They shoot well enough for me - and I am kind of persnickety in regards to accuracy!
Now in case you have not read in other postings I own both the Ruger 77 V/T in 204 and the 26" heavy barrel Remington 700 VLS in 204. Both of them are throated so long that I am not able to get my handloaded 35 gr. Bergers seated ANYWHERE near the leades of the rifling - in either Rifle!
In fact the Hornady factory ammo (both the 32's and the 40's) have to jump nearly 2/10ths of an inch to hit Rifling! Yet they shoot really well in both Rifles. I think the Rugers barrel is floated but the Remington rides wood like a lumberjack!
I have only done a trigger job on the Remington as far as modifications go and they are both Varmint killing machines with very good accuracy!
I am a firm believer in lots of scope power and I am sure that I owe much of my obtained accuracy to 24 and 25 top end power scopes on my 204's as well as top quality bullets, great Hart front rest, perfect triggers and only shooting anymore on windless days!
More later here comes my Mt. Goat Hunting buddy up the drive!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

When Hornady and Ruger conspired to develop this round they saw it ending up being used in semi autos (Mini 14 in particular).
With that in mind operating pressures were lowered and one way to help toward that end is to put a long throat in it, ala Weatherby.
Obviously with the way some of these rifles are grouping VarmintGuy is right on, a shorter throat would be nice but isn't absolutely necessary for good accuracy.
To get the very most out of this round it would be interesting to have a custom reamer cut with the aforementioned short throat, take a slice off the barrel and rechamber it with the reamer being sure to start over with load development.
On the otherhand if your getting 1/2 inch groups who cares? You might pick up a little velocity with a shorter throat but probably not enough to make a huge difference.

When I first got into reloading(which really wasn't that long ago) I was told to load my cartridges at 20/1000 of the lands. As I have developed loads for my 204, which is limited in OAL, I have noticed that making the bullet jump a little further to get to the lands has not really hindered my groups(for a hunting rifle),and you guys are reaffirming my suspicions.
Today I went and tested some 40gr Bergers and AA2230 and my hottest load was at 27gr. There were no pressure signs what so ever. 26gr, 26.5gr and 27.0gr all shot at .5", I think that I will load some up at 27.5gr and 28.0gr and see what happens. I don't have a chronograph so I don't know the velocities, but as soon as my friend gets home(that has one) from his sheep hunt we are going to go do some velocity testing. If I can get a 40gr Berger to go between 3900 and 4000 fps and stay accurate, I will be stoked. If anyone has any info on 40gr slugs and AA2230, I would be forever grateful if they would pass it on.
Thanks,
slygunner

NT

Varmintguy, thanks for the info. I've been reloading for a few years now, but I've never used a chrony. I feel like I'm at the point with my reloading that I need to use one. My buddy and I went in on one together this past week. I haven't used it yet. When I look for accuracy in my guns, I do look at powder increments, but my most accurate loads seem to depend on OAL. Which do you look at first? I haven't loaded probably a 1/4 of the loads alot of you folks have, but obviously the factory 40gr. v-max bullets in my M77 Ruger are a pile off the lands.(.140") That kind of shoots my theory about AOL being most important. But that gun shoots lights out. You can bet when I stuck my OAL guage in my Ruger for the first time, I thought "I'll never even come close to a .015" off load to try. But I could luckily. The Rem 700 LVS will hopefully get some shooting this weekend. First thing in the morning, I'm going to run my OAL guage in it to see what I've got. Hopefully see my new chrony for the first time too! I told my buddy, "no loading until I can shoot through a chrony and see what I'm doing."
One other little tid bit about free floating the barrel. All the Ruger rifles I've owned shot really well for me. BUT, I bought one of the m77/17's. That thing was a turd! They are real pretty, but thats all I could say about it. It shot everywhere! I talked to one of my friends about them, and he had one that was terrible also. I had some people say,"the barrel needs to be free floating." My friend gave his gun to a guy in our town that said the gun needs "shimmed" somewhere down the barrel, I guess, to change the harmonics alittle. I really don't know. This guy shot the gun enough to find out where this "pressure point" needed to be. The gun shoots respectible for a rimfire now. I told him to see what he could do for mine, because I was about to get rid of it. Those guns cost to darn much money for nobetter than it was shooting. Well....I've got a shim between the barrel and the wood near the back that made that gun shoot respectable groups. Thats got me scratching my head!
I've also searched 1/2 the gun shops in my area and can't find any AA2230. You guys have me anxtious to try it.

slygunner-- what a coincidence!!! I just loaded up some 40 gr. Berger length tolerant bullets for my Savage 12VLP in .204 Ruger and the powder charges I am using are..........drum roll please!!! AA2230 with 26.5 gr., 26.8 gr. and 27.0 gr. of powder touched off with Remington 7 1/2 primers. This will be my first test of the 40 gr. Bergers using AA2230.



I am getting some very small sized groups with this bullet using several different weight powder charges of H322 and the velocities are running from 3,870 fps up to 3,948 fps. All of these group sizes I list below were shot from 100 yards, off a concrete bench using a rear bag and front mechanical rest. Groups are 3-shot groups unless otherwise stated. All casings are Hornady fired at least once and neck sized with my Redding Type S bushing die using a .224" bushing. Casings had the primer pockets uniformed, flash hole deburred, trimmed to 1.8425" in length and chamfered and deburred. All powder charges are weighed on an RCBS balance beam scale. Bullets were treated with Fastex.



Powder charge weights I have tested include:



27.2 gr. ---- .566" group --- 3,880 fps MV -- 10/8/04

27.4 gr. ---- .275" group --- 3,870 fps MV -- 10/8/04

27.4 gr. ---- .275" group --- 3,917 fps MV -- 10/11/04

27.5 gr. ---- .375" group --- 3,917 fps MV -- 10/11/04

27.6 gr. ---- .370" group --- 3,948 fps MV -- 10/11/04



As you can see, I haven't had to shoot many groups to find loads that seem to be very accurate in my Savage. This is in contrast to my attempts to find a load for the 40 gr. Hornady V-Max. I have shot over 100 of those bullets in test loads and still haven't found the magic load for those.



On my next trip to the range, I will shoot 5-shot groups with H322 loads of 27.5 gr. and 27.6 gr. and the 40 gr. Berger with Fastex treatment. If I don't get the accuracy I expect, I may drop back to the 27.4 gr. load even though it is a tad bit slower in velocity--those .275" groups look mighty nice even if they are 60 to 70 fps slower than the 27.6 gr. load. I guess if you operate under the thought that "If you can't hit it, then it makes no differnce how fast your bullet was going; you just miss "faster" with the hotter load." then I should really go with the 27.4 gr. load. However, I am a SPEED FREAK--SPEED KILLS!!!!



I'll also be shooting those 40 gr. bullets using three different charges of AA2230. I am very interested in the accuracy and velocity with these three loads.



My OAL with the 40 gr. Bergers is between 2.318" and 2.3205". The bullet tips make it hard to get consistent, exact same OALs. I go mainly by my Stoney Point Comp gauge anyway, but list OALs for those who live and die by that number. I made my own insert for the SP gauge out of a .17 caliber insert, so my comparator lengths may vary somewhat from those of you who have purchased the SP .20 caliber insert. There was no such insert available when I first started reloading the .204 Ruger, so I made my own. My comparator length is 2.995".

Silverfox,
Thanks for all the info. I wish that I could sit down with you and really pick your brain about the 204, but I guess I will have to settle for doing it alittle at a time over the net . I have had the some problem with the 40gr Vmax, it will not shoot out of my gun. I have put 150 handloads, of the 40gr Vmax, down the tube and nothing good to speak of. It also seems that if I push them faster than 3700fps they get even worse. Now, the Bergers are a whole different story. They shoot consistent and they don't seem to be picky about how fast they are going. I'm out of the 40gr Berger LTBs , but they are on the way , and I can hardly stand still in anticipation at what will happen with the next round of tests. I'm also a speed freak, thats why I got the 204. I was getting a little down on the fact that I could not get the velocities that were advertised, but the dream is starting to become a reality. My Bergers should be here tomorrow so I will be testing by the middle of the week, if school permits. I will let you guys know how it goes. slygunner