I am thinking about getting into varmint hunting and am looking for a new rig. I have a nice long range rig in 308 but I want something a little smaller with less recoil. I was thinking on a new Savage 12F or BLVSS. I shoot left handed so my options of factory offerings in decent heavy brl
Varmint rigs is limited. I already have a Remington 700VS left hander and wanted to try something new. The Savage left handed varmint stanless steel heavy brl looks pretty interesting.

So how does it rate for those of you who own them? Are they decent rifles? How is accuracy? I will get it in either 22-250 or 243.

Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

it is perfect. I lean toward the 223, unless you need it for bigger than coyote.
Then I Would lean toward the 243.

However that is not discounting the 22/250, also an excellent round. I'd just lean toward the 243 of the two ( strictly preference and nothing more).

I am speaking of the one with the accu-trigger.!!!

As for the calibers, I already own a 223 so that is why I did not mention that one. I dont like buying more of one rifle in each caliber until I own one of every single caliber out there (and that will be never so...... lol)

I am also considering the 260

How much can one expect to pay for a Savage 12BVSS with an Accu Trigger?
Jeff

They are running from $550 up and I don't think the 260 is available currently.Super gun with a trigger thats a winner.I'm raising money to buy one in 223 right now.They are very accurate.

woods

Are the actions at all smooth on these? I have never handled a 12BVSS, but I did grab a Savage at the local gunshop (not sure what kind) and the bolt felt like it was sliding on sandpaper. This turned me off immediately. Are they all like this? I don't expect them to be as smooth as a Sako or Weatherby, but that was terrible. I would like to give Savage a try, but I'm not sure I can overlook what I felt in that shop. Hopefully, that was out of the ordinary.

I got a new Savage 12fvss in 270 WSM a month ago and it's back at Savage. The tops of the lands were very dark and a thread caught on them when I cleaned it. The pressures with factory 150 gr Power Points expanded the heads .003" and produced 3223 fps. The factory data claims 3150 fps. The forend touched the barrel on the left side and finally the rifle shot 2 MOA at both 100 and 200 yards.

The bolt has no camming power to close the bolt or to open it. There may be something wrong with this one or maybe they are all like this. This one has the accutrigger and it's a good trigger but no better than any other modern trigger that's adjusted right. This chambering and action is CRF by the way!

Overall this gun is ugly. It seems that every angle or facet is made wrong in terms of art. Now this is just my taste and your taste is as valid as mine. I also would admit that if it shot 1/2 MOA that I would be bragging about it. A friend of mine just got a .223 in a #10 with the 24" heavy barrel and it's very accurate!

When it comes back I will try to get it going and I will sell it if I can't. Nothing new there.

I just recently purchased a 12BVSS in 22-250. I paid $550 for it. I would say it is the most accurate thing I have ever shot. I have targets with groups as small as .500 at 200 yards. It does not seem to like 50gr bullets. IT loves 55gr Sierra BTHP. I know it is not supposed to with its 1 in 12 twist but it shoots the 69gr sierra BTHP into .400 at 100 yards. My uncle has one in 223 and I have seen some better groups from his. Defintly think you would be happy with it.....

I have several model 12's and some other bolts in different configurations also.They tend to be very accurate but triggers need adjustment.Just ordered another 12bvss in 22-250,was going to get 223 but I can't shake my love affair with the 22-250.The factory synthetic stocks need to be reinforced with epoxy and some small rods in the forends to prevent them from touching the barrel on either side and to give them stability with less give.The laminate stocks are a better bet in the varmint guns although a little more money at purchase.

quote:

---

This chambering and action is CRF by the way!

---

As far as savages being CRF,never heard of it and they haven't changed bolt design or feed method to my knowledge at this point.All my guns are Push feed including the newest ones just purchased and the WSM's.

regards woods

I had one of the originals (112BVSS) in 22-250 and it was a great shooter. 1 1/4-1 1/2 groups at 300 yards were common with it. If you get it, you won't be disappointed.

I own several Savages and the BVSS is clunky. The stock is too big and heavy and you will need to mount their scope pretty high due to the high comb on the stock.

Bolts are very rough, rifles aren't pretty, fit and finish are fair to poor. But they shoot GREAT and that's where the rubber meets the road.

To match average Savage accuracy you'll likely have to send your Remington out to blueprint and glass bed the action.

To match the Accu-Trigger you'll have to buy an aftermarket or do a really good trigger job on your factory trigger on your Remington.

Savage rifles are a great bargain if you're interested in accuracy and an abomination if you like good looking rifles.

I have a love/hate relationship with my Savages. I love to shoot them and I hate to look at and handle them....

btw... Stay away from the big ugly stocks made by Choate for the Savages. Everybody want's one and they almost always sell them a few weeks after they get one. They look "neat" and have that "tactical" look, but don't handle well in the field or at the bench. You can pick up up for a song on the auction sites if you simply must have one but I've never known anyone to be happy with one after a few trips to the range or hunting.

The Savage factory synthetic stocks don't look good and at first glance you'll think that you'll replace them with a "good stock" at the first opportunity but I'm here to tell you that for some reason the rifles shoot remarkably well with them on...

If you are REALLY serious about accuracy then go to http://www.varminthunters.com/sshooter/ What Fred Moreo doesn't know about Savages isn't worth knowing and he can provide you with anything you could imaginably need to make your Savages shoot as well as a benchrest rifle. Be SURE to ask for their catalog!!!

$bob$

Live here in Western PA bought a model 12 BVSS-S
in .223 paid 410.00$ tax included with the new Accu- Trigger.About the smoothness of the bolt
glide,the -S stands for single shot my single shot
has a stainless steel floor plate and the bolt
glide is as smooth as a prom queens thigh ! If
you don't by the single shot you are going to have
a plastic magazine follower and that rough gritty
action,I also think it looks cheap,so opt for the
single shot.Who is selling the 12BVSS for 550.00$
that is almost full retail ! oouch !!!

Guess they sell them savages at special prices down there in PA Savage lists current retail at $675 and Gunfinder is selling them at $604.If you payed $410 with tax then it was $390 or so huh?Wonder how many other guys on the forum are getting stainless laminated 12bvss guns for that?I'm paying 15% over cost and its $550 and on Gunsamerica they go from $525-619 new.Better check and make sure your gun wasn't used or hot I'm thinking thats wayy to low to be legit.

woods

[ 06-29-2003, 05:12: Message edited by: woodseye ]

My local shop can order my Lefty version for me and I can get it for $605 out the door. And this place is wayyyyyyyyyyy to expensive on everything. So I checked around and a buddy told me about www.scopeusout.com they hjave the same rifle for $456 I think, and that includes shipping. All I have to do is ship it to my locall FFL but that costs me an extra $25 so now I am at about the same price as before lol

With tax and dros it will be $676 to take her home. So for now I am still looking for a better deal. Even though I doubt I will find one.
I still need to choose between 22-250 and 243

I cant decide

I just bought a 12BVSS in a .243 laminated stock with accura trigger.$550 out the door before adding 6 to 20 burris scope.
It has a funny twist rate to my way of thinking
1 to 9 and a 1/4? It will not shoot light bullets worth a damn.i have 5 other savages that all shoot
very well.Hoping this one will too,going to the range today with 90gr. bergers,95 gr balistic tips, and 105 gr amax's. I am hoping this will make it shoot a better group with these heavier bullets.I guess we will see?
muskrat
live free or die!

Hmmmmmmmm........tried your link Embalmer and couldn't find any new savage guns for sale anywheres.$456 still is under dealer cost and would be interested to see this listing on line.Dealer cost runs right around $473 and thats dependant on incentive deals and freight pre paid orders as well as volume discounts.You did good Muskrat as $525-550 is the going "good" deal on the 12bvss.

woods

[ 06-29-2003, 18:27: Message edited by: woodseye ]

Woodseye,the shop I bought my Savage at is here in
Beaver county PA,If you want e-mail me a fax #
and I will send you a copy of my receipt,E-mail
is bmiller9@yahoo.com maybe he can help out ! I
know the owner and he is a great guy with a very real gun shop,I'am not sending any BS on this
I'am serious as to what I paid.Beaver is a very
depressed area maybe this accounts for the prices
and yes my Savage was NIB from the factory.

I paid $525 plus six percent sales tax to my local dealer for a 12fvss.

This action is crf. I suppose it should be in lower case as the extractor is smaller than my little fingernail but the bolt face is open on the bottom of the bolt and as the cartridge feeds out of the magazine it slips under it.

Comparing this action to a Remington I would take the Remington any day of the week for camming power, smoothness and looks.

OK I'll go with you on that Savage99,we'll call it crf instead of CRF lol.I hear they did that to assure feeding with the short mags and it does make the bolt operate a bit tighter.I didn't consider it to be crf but Fred at SSS says its truly a crf bolt design now.I just traded off my last Remington varminter, the Savages just appeal to me more and I hold their accuracy above all other features.Good Shooting.

Embalmer,I tried your link again and when no quote place to click appeared anywhere I called the fellow,nice guy but he don't sell or give quotes on Savage rifles and no one on his site does.He suggested you are posting incorrect info about his site and he'd be glad to sell anyone a stock for a savage but not the entire gun

Brudford,I'm still waiting to hear from your gunshop on a Savage price but will let you know if I do.Am interested in a Savage at those kind of prices as most anyone would be.I'll wait and see.

While talking to Fred at SSS I ordered one of the stocks he sells for the savage as well as a SSS trigger.Will see how they work on a 16FSS deer rifle I'm playing with.cheers.

woods

Muskrat:

The 243 with the 1 in 9.25 twist is to stabilize the 107Sierras and 105 grain AMaxes.

I have seen several people buy the 12BVSS (hope I got that right). The $410.00 sythethic stock one is a different level of quality to the levels I have seen on the laminate stock ones.

Looking a little more closely at Savage lately, it seems that they have a standard:
If the bolt is sloppy and rough, it gets a cheap stock and goes to Walmart or Kmart.
If it is a little better it gets a little better stock of synthetic, and goes to a little better source of purchase for the consumer.

The best actions seem to get the nice laminate stocks, with real good fit and finish.

Continuity on Savages bolts is not on the same level as Winchester or Remingtons, or Rugers for that matter.
The more expensive Savages really seem to be a very comparable desirable rifle to me.

Just MHO.

I think your observation is 100% correct seafire.The stainless and laminate stock guns as well as the walnut stocked and safari models seem to have much smoother bolts and better fit.The cheaper package and synthetic guns appear to get the poorer quality and fit actions(but they also sell for a lot less).One reason why I always wondered what people were talking about with rough and gritty bolt feel when all mine seemed to be perfectly acceptable.The cartridge follower that is some type of plastic if steelwooled and coated with armourall or some type of vinyl dressing becomes slick as metal when the bolt slides over it.

woods

I have a 12bvss in .223 and have liked it from the beginning. A friend has a 100 yd range at his house so I took it over there and we broke it in. Then took the accuracy load from the Sierra manual and shot a honest 1/2" group with it. All Savage rifles are test fired for function before leaving the factory. All the heavy barreled varmint/tactical rifles must shoot MOA or less or they don't leave the factory.

http://sportingarms.com/index.asp

Sorry I gave you the wrong addy before. This is the place that gives the good deals with the qoutes.

Thanks for the link Embalmer,will put it to good use I'm sure.After trying your first link and the gunshop in Pa. and not getting anywhere I went ahead and got the 12BVSS local and picked it up yesterday.With the scope installed and boresighted and the bore cleaned it proceded to shoot 1/2" groups while sighting in and shows MUCH potential for great accuracy.Want to get the accu trigger a skunch lighter and after lapping the bolt and making sure all was tight and floating last night will take it out today and hopefully finish breaking in the barrel and get to see what it will really do.Fit and finish were excellant and that fluted barrel doesn't heat up much even in the temps we're having now.Would reccommend one as a superb out of the box varmint gun that will ruin many a chuck or coyotes day!

woods

very good to hear. Now I just wish I could get the laminated version in lefty. Savage only offers the plstic one in lefty And from what I have seen in the synthetic version, the stock is a POS. Or at least it feels like one. The synthetic on my remy lefty is sweet and feels great, but the savage looks and feels like plastic (becuase it is! lol) and I do not like that. But I want the gun no matter what stock it wears. So I will get it and restock it if it bothers me that much.

Embalmer:

If yu want another stock, check with Boyd Brothers. They are one of if not the largest stock manufacturers in the USA. web site:
www.boydboys.com.

They carry stocks for the Savage in right handed for about $130.00 finished and drop in in laminate, grey or nutmug ( brownish).

Maybe they have leftys also.

Just a thought.

I recently got a Stockade synthetic stock from Lock Stock and Barrel web pagefor my Savage 116. I'm pretty happy with this stock, I got it unpainted(finished and primed though) for about $175.00. You can get it a little cheaper if you want to to do the sanding and priming or for about $60.00 more you can get it painted. It has an aluminum pillar up front I believe(or maybe it's one whole bedding block) and bedding block in the rear. The stock is pretty darn stiff. I checked and it looks like there is quite an assortment of left hand stock variations.
If you like wood or laminates Boyds is pretty inexpensive and they look pretty nice, I put one on my 700 Remington. Mine was inletted improperly as well as one for a Savage my friend has. I wish I'd have bit the bullet and bought an HS Precision stock for my Remington. Good luck with your choices.
Jeff

Jeff,glad to hear your feed back on the stockade stock as I have one on order fron Sharp Shooters Supply and understand they have a one piece alum. bedding block.Did you "skim bed" yours or just bolt it to the pillars?SSS seems to lean towards the skim bed and the stock and their trigger should make a nice difference on my model 16.How was fit with the stockade stock?Is the forend plenty stiff compared to the tupperware savage synthetic?Thanks

woods

Its not that I like the wood stocks. I actually hate the look of wood ( I know, shame shame) I do prefur synthetic. But the synthetic that Savage is using is plastic and crappy : (I wish it wasnt so, but it is. The only wood stock I have found that I absolutely love is a Richards Microfit stock. It is the tactical version. I love the cut of it. I just wish it was not wood lol

I'll check out the above mentioned stock sights. Thanks guys.

Woodseye,
I like the stock. I initially tried my rifle without bedding but there was a little too much slop. My rifle is a .300 Win mag and I think the recoil let it move around some. I skim bedded it this weekend and haven't been out to shoot it yet. The only problems I have had was that the trigger guard screw holes didn't quite match up with the ones in the stock. I called Stockade and they said that Savage has made nine different trigger guards and some are a little different. I ended up opening up my trigger guard holes with a dremel, thinking back on it maybe I should have worked on the holes in the stock instead. It came out ok though. I will say the man I talked too(Kevin I believe)was very knowledgeable and we must have talked almost 30 minutes about Savage rifles . The other problem I had was that the barrel sat closer to the right side of the barrel channel when I tightened the screws down. I cut a small piece of credit card and put it under the action and that straightened things out pretty well.
The stock is plenty stiff. With the skim bedding I don't anticipate any problems in the future. I think you will like your's. I'd definitely buy another Stockade stock, I've researched aftermarket stocks for Savages and I think they might be the best bang for the buck.
Good Luck with choice, I hope it works well for you.
Jeff57

I have 2 Savage 110's and both shoot well. I've long since discarded the stocks that came with them. I certainly wish we could get away with buying the barreled action like we used to.
The newer Savages I've seen are just too damn heavy and clunky looking for my taste. They're okay from the bench, but man I wouldn't want to tote one in the fields all day after woodchuck.
I think they are great intro rifles because they're inexpensive and get people to shooting who might otherwise be left out. I hope this doesn't offend anyone, but life is too short for ugly women and rifles. I'd rather spend the extra money on a Sako or Cooper, even if it does mean saving for a lot longer. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

Thank You for the good info Jeff,sounds good to me as I'm going to skim bed the stock right off and add the trigger at the same time.Could you please private message me and give me a number to reach Stockade Stock Co. with?I would appreciate it and would like to talk to them about a special stock for one of my guns.They seem to be the best bet out there for Savage guns and Fred at SSS would have tried them all.I've just started shooting my 12BVSS and it shoots 3/4" groups with factory remington green box ammo at this point.The barrel still isn't fully broke in and trigger is at 1# 15oz's,next are handloads and playing with bullet seating depth.Hoping for 1/4-3/8" groups when all is said and done,but will take better if it happens.Posted on several forums for accuracy loads for the 22-250 and after sifting thru all the responses I have three powders and three bullet brands I want to work with.

regards woods

woods

[ 07-09-2003, 14:53: Message edited by: woodseye ]

I just got a Savage 12 FVSS in .223. The stock is crap, but they didn't have any of the BVSS guns in stock. Looking back, I think I should have ordered one. So far, the gun has shot 3/4 to 1/2 MOA with Federal match ammo (69grn).

I'm debating on sending the gun back to Savage though...the scope mounting holes are way off. It took 22 MOA of adjustment in my scope to get the windage right. I ended up putting Millet windage adjustable rings on it, but I just don't like them. I don't feel comfortable with having adjustment in my rings. I want them right. So, should I send it back?

On another note, I was thinking about getting a new stock. Right now its between the Bell & Carlson, the SSS stocks, or a Micro-fit Tactical. Any opinions? I mostly bench shoot if it matters.

The Richards Mico-Fit Tactical stock is the one I am planning on getting for this rifle. Good choice. A buddy has a Micro-fit for his savage and loves it. It was just a hell of alot of work to fit it properly since they only come about 96% inletted for the Savage. But it does look superb!

JEFF,
Couldn't PM you so thanks much for info.

woods

[ 07-10-2003, 15:53: Message edited by: woodseye ]

You won't be disappointed with the SS Varmint/Tactical stock. It's fully inletted and a drop-in. I put a little glass on the recoil lug but I really didn't have to. Makes the rifle shoot very small groups.
Dale

FWIW, I put a Bell and Carlson stock on my Savage 12FV (223), as I also did not like the look and feel of the OEM plastic stock. That, and it wouldn't group worth beans if the forestock was resting on the bag, due to so much flex in the forstock. I confirmed this by putting the front rest under the front action bolt, and the groups went from 1.5" to <0.5". With the Bell and Carlson, it is shooting ~0.6" at 200 yards with handloads. Stock looks good and fit perfectly.

Just wondering what the forearm area of the SS stocks and the Bell & Carlson stock is like. I'm looking for something with a pretty wide forearm for bench use. I know the Micro-Fit tactical can go up to 5" wide (seems silly). I'd go with the 2.5" for that one. I really like to have a fully inletted stock, but the tactical looks pretty cool. I really like the vertical style grip on it (at least I think I would).

The only palce I ever shoot my Savage is off the bench and using a Farley rest. The stock is perfect.