Hey guys,

Been thinking of finally getting an Ar15 as the price has now come down to much the same price as a good bolt action .223.

Want to use it for varminting and hunting, however the majority of AR15's I see on the market down here have a 16 inch barrel. Ive handled a few with that length barrel and I do like them, however I'm just concerned that a barrel as short as 16 inch is going to have a major impact on the velocity and range.

The good AR15's Ive seen set up for varminting have a t least a 20 inch tube, but I'm interested in the feedback / advice and does 4 inches of barrel make much difference in shooting out to say 300 yards?

What are some good loads that work well for the .223 in a 16inch barrel?


Cheers,

Michael.

got both kinds & i prefer the longer barrels.

I prefer an AR with either a 16" heavy barrel or a 20" standard barrel. There will be some velocity difference between the two but unless you are shooting past 200 yards you won't be able to tell the difference. Even at 300 yards trajectories will differ by only an inch or two. So, I'd choose the rifle I felt most comfortable carrying and shooting regardless of barrel length.

My 16" MP 15 is dead on at 150 yds. While every rifle is different I am loading 25.5 gr Win 748 under 55 gr Dogtown bullets from Midway. Average velocity is 2750 fps.

I prefer the 16 in barrel myself, but the main thing if you are wanting accuracy is doing something about the trigger. that will make more difference than 4 in of barrel length anyday.

Cheers guys.

My main concern getting enough expansion with varmint bullets out to say 300 yards or so.

Won't have any problems with expansion at 300 with varmint bullets and a 16" bbl. that said, I do like 18" midweight and 20" standard weight bbls for all-around hunting with the exception of a 16 1/2" 458 SOCOM I put together.

You lose perhaps 120fps at most.

Thanks guys,

Next question - for varmints, what weight projectile do you recommend that works well from a 16 inch tube? - was thinking something along the lines of the 50gr (V-Max, Blitzking etc).

V-max is great as well as the tipped Nosler. Both feed well in my AR type with M4 feed ramps. My barrels are fast twist (1/7-1/9) and they shoot the light bullets very well.

Going back to your barrel question, I use 10.5 to 24 inch barrels, and I do think the best is a 16 that is accurate!

bullet choice should also be based on your intended target.
New Zealand say's Rabbits to me.
it you plan on eating them I'd avoid the super explosive bullets like the hornady sp/sx and use their normal tipped 50.
you could then use the sp/sx for other stuff you don't intend to eat.
the faster twist rates of the AR rifles helps those more explosive bullets come apart easier and the higher velocity's helps them break apart better also.

my preference is for a 20" barrel.
the 223 is marginal as it is, slowing it down doesn't help.
if I want slower I just go to a smaller case and a lot cooler rifle, the martini and the 222 would be more my choice.
you don't lose much in terminal performance but gain about 10 million style points.
[which goes a long way's when talking to a farmer about shooting his pasture]

Deer
Noslers 60gr Partition in front of 22.5gr of Benchmark powder.

Woodchucks
Nosler 55gr ballistic tip in front of 22.5gr of RL 7

Zombies
Hornady 75gr BTHP in front of 24gr of BLC(2)

Thinking that I knew what I wanted, I went the other way and got 24" barrel to hunt with.

Don't know about the 16" (shot them on the qual range a LOT) but I will say don't go longer than 20"

May get used to it but it feels cumbersome.

I do not like the 16" because of the noise. 18: heavy would likely be great, but 20" seems to work.

I have chronographed 16" and 20" barrels, up to more than 300 fps difference.
@ 300 m, not much difference but at longer range up to 600 m, the 20" demonstrated its superiority.

quote:

Originally posted by Edmond:
I have chronographed 16" and 20" barrels, up to more than 300 fps difference.
@ 300 m, not much difference but at longer range up to 600 m, the 20" demonstrated its superiority.

+1

Where I hunt, i really like the 16 in

Kiwiwildcat,

perhaps Saeed valuable research could answer your questions.

http://www.accuratereloading.com/223sb.html

A 50 gr Nosler BT over 25.1 grs of Benchmark gives me around 3260 fps from my 20" 1:8 service rifle with awesome accuracy. I just picked up a Rock River Operator and am curious to see what kind of velocities I get with the 16", 9-twist barrel.

Get a Remington R15 with 18" barrel. Not only is the barrel superb, so is the trigger.

The velocity loss with a 16" vs 20" (or 24") just requires you understand the trajectory. More tricky is the effect of a fast twist "extra"-frangible projos like SX, Blitz, Power-lokt, etc.

Have used frangibles through bbls from 11.5" to 20", and far and away the greater concern is twist rate. Very easy to get 16" groups at 100 yds. None of my 1:7 twists give good results with the frangibles. 1:12s will usually work fine.

1:12 twist on a new gun is no longer common b/c of the desire to use M855, etc. Most semiauto ARs sold now come with 1:8 or 1:9. I'd certainly prefer the latter.

A bit counterintuitive, but with a fast twist short-bbl AR try projos designed for Swift/.22-250 for best results. I think the Nosler 40 gr BT is designed for high-velocities and that might be a good one to try in a 16". You may give up a bit of terminal explosiveness vs the frangible class, but hitting is more important.

I have two in process. My wife's will be a 16", mine an 18". Hers will be a 1:9 twist, mine a 1:7". I plan on shooting 75's a lot.

A longer, heavier bullet will retain more velocity downrange than a shorter, lighter bullet. There may be a velocity difference of a few hundred fps at the muzzle but nearly all weights of .223 bullet will end up about the same velocity at 300 yards.

Also, in regards to twist, a longer barrel will generate more muzzle velocity than a shorter barrel. More velocity creates more RPMs rotation for a given barrel twist. For that reason, it actually makes more sense to use a 1:9" twist on a longer barrel and 1:8" or 1"7" twist on a shorter barrel than the other way around.

quote:

Originally posted by kiwiwildcat:
Hey guys,


The good AR15's Ive seen set up for varminting have a t least a 20 inch tube, but I'm interested in the feedback / advice and does 4 inches of barrel make much difference in shooting out to say 300 yards?

What are some good loads that work well for the .223 in a 16inch barrel?


Cheers,

Michael.

55g Vmax over 26g Varget = 2900fps in my 16"
1:8 twist AR, super accurate (2in@ 300yds)

many a dead AK. yote & Oahu Goats!! 100-300 yds never an exit just a hairy bag of red pudding!

YMMV

I have 16",20", and 24". From what I've read,figure 50-75 fps lost per inch less than 20 inches. Where I live it's hilly and wooded so I use the handier 16" for 150 yard shots on song dogs. I prefer the "dissipator" configuration with a full length forend. I have one 24" bull barrel. I would consider that too cumbersome for anything but the bench.

I'm with fla3006, the Remington r-15 is a great rifle. I have had the 22" but prefer the 18. They are 9 twists and very accurate. I have had fabulous accuracy from 50gr v-max and B-tips, 52 gr sierras, 53gr TSX, 60 gr partitions and the nosler Bonded. I also like the sling studs on both ends so I can use my usual slings and the extra front stud for bi-pod. The triggers are definitely useable and function over thousands of rounds has been flawless.

I have both a 24" and 16" barreled AR's, both have a 1 in 8" twist barrel. I like the 40 gr Hornady V-Max, Z-Max or Nosler Ballistic Tip or Varmageddon Tipped bullet over 27.5 gr of TAC, which produces over 3500 fps out of the 24" barrel and over 3100 fps out of the 16". Very dramatic effect on gophers or prairie dogs. Out to 200 yards, either works well. Beyond 200 yards I much prefer the 24" barrel, or my Remington SPS Varmint bolt gun with a 26" 1 in 12" twist that pushes well over 3600 fps.
If you don't handload, the Fiocchi 40 gr V-Max factory load shoots very close to my handload and provides similar performance.

I have a load for most of my varmint shooting here in Idaho that is a 40g NBT which runs at 3975fps out of my 26" barrel varmint rig which also carries an 8" suppressor on the end.

Out of my 16.5" AR that same load runs a 3655fps.

Check out the Remington R15, comes in 18 inch barrel and mine shoots very well.

I have 16", 18", and 20" barrels on my rifles. I have settled on the 55gr Vmax and the 55gr Blitz king as my bullets of choice.

My 16" AR has a red dot and a 3x multiplier. The 18" wears an 3-9x40 scope and the 20" wears a 4-16 power scope. They all have taken coyote and enjoy all three for what they are.