Hey guys, I'd like all you experienced 6 mm users to name your favorite 6 mm bullets. Thought of this after reading Bobby Tomek's recs on 6 mm 80 gr bullets. I'm still working up loads for my 6X50R Bellm barrel in 14" Contender. From initial load development, here are the approximate muzzle velocities I'll be working with: 55 gr=3050-3150 fps; 75 gr=2800-2950 fps; 80 gr=2650-2750 fps. These are the categories for your submission(s):
small varmints (e.g. prairie dogs, ground squirrels, etc)
large varmints (e.g. coyotes)
deer/antelope (I'm talking about small whitetail deer inside 250 yards, not large mule deer or midwestern wt at really long range)
I don't think my velocities will be sufficient to make bullets heavier than 80 gr practical. Gary T.

Gary, I am not sure if I can be of any help here, as most of my 6mm shooting has either been in a rifle or in a 6mm designed for silhouette shooting.

But, given the parameters you mention I would simply try the 85 grain Sierra spitzer for deer.
(Yah, I know it is heavier than you want, but I have shot several deer with it in rifles, and it WORKS!) If you think it is too heavy, try the 80 grain Sierra Blitz.

For everything else, I would use a 70 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip.

R F

I've been a great fan of the 70 grain Ballistic Tip for varmints, but have recently tried some 55 grain Ballistic Tips and am VERY impressed. I think I would recommend the 55's over the 70's in you slower handgun loads.

I agree with Flowers on the 85 grain Sierra. At your handgun speeds, it will give you adequate expansion and penetration.

The 85 grain Sierra BTHP bullet is the most popular 6mm bullet going (for hunting purposes) and should work nicely in the shorter barrel. I believe with the shorter barrel, you'll *want* a heavier bullet for better terminal performance at extended ranges. The trajectory won't be as flat, true, but the heavier bullet will have more energy beyond 200 yards than the light ones.

The Sierra 85 BTHP's are really accurate!

green 788

Somewhat different parameters I'll admit, but the 58 V-Max (mollied) has worked spectacularly for me over VarGet in a long-barrelled 6mm Rem. Spankin' accurate and 4000 fps!

I've shot the 90 gr Berger and the 105 A-Max (both mollied) over 4350 in the same rifle at 1000 with wonderful results and scores.

Redial

Redial,

I have to ask what type of barrel do you have on your "long barreled 6mm?". You say that it is very accurate with the 58 gr v-max loaded to 4000 fps and then also state that it is very accurate out to 1000 yards with the 105 gr A-Max. These two comments seem to counterdict each other.

I have been using a very accurate M70 with a 30" heavy Lilja barrel chambered for the 6mm-284. This rifle is designed solely for long range shooting and such, the VLD designed bullets such as the 105 gr Berger and Hornady as well as the 107 gr Sierra Match King.

The 105 gr bullets are very accurate as long as velocity is limited to no more then 3100 fps. Any thing faster and they begin to loose structural integrity from the 1-8 twist which is correct with these bullets. The 107 gr Sierra has a thicker jacket and I drive them over 3500 fps with 1.5-2" three shot groups at 500 yards.

I have also used the lighter bullets in this custom twist barrel just for experimental knowledge and can say that at anywhere near 4000 fps, the 58 gr v-max bullets I have shot created a puff of blue smoke. The only light bullets I have tested that would handle the strain are the Ballistic and Ballistic Silvertips as well as the partitions and x bullets.

Just curious about your set up that will shoot such a huge range of bullets as well as you say?

Good Shooting!!

50

No problem!

I can understand how my post would raise such questions. The barrel is a 1-8" from Cooper Precision in Tennessee of 28" length chambered for the plain-vanilla 6mm Rem, complete with SAAMI (very long) throat.

I was amazed that the light pills and the Bergers held together since both are spinning QUITE fast. I've been able to push the J4 jacketed Bergers to 3450 or so, despite warnings not to go above 3200. I won't swear that it's solely responsible, but I've noticed that I've been able to push frangible or lightly constructed bullets outside their design parameters after I moly them. I like to tumble plate them until they are BLACK rather than purple-bluish, so maybe my plating is thicker? Who knows? I even re-moly the factory mollied Hornadys since I think theirs is kinda thin. The 105s are running 3240, IIRC.

It's my unsupported belief that jacket integrity, maintained by lessening friction heating and avoiding surface scarring, determine whether a bullet will disintegrate. Rotational speed is a major factor, but secondary to preserving an intact jacket. Smooth barrels and moly seem to help. Then again, I could be wrong as hell. I don't know WHY some things happen, only that they do! I've been able to disintegrate "bare" target bullets in rough AR barrels at much lesser velocities, in support of my theory.

BTW, I'm a prone shooter so my accuracy requirements are somewhat looser than those who shoot off furniture. I'm just happy when they shoot better than I can hold!

Redial

Redial,

I hope I didn't sound demeaning with my post, I did not mean it that way in the least. I was just very curious about your set up to see if there was a pattern to keeping light bullets together under extreme stress.

While not with the big 6mm rounds, I have been able to push very fragile bullets quite fast and I would agree with you about the benefits of moly. The most dramatic example I have tested to date was in a Ruger M77VT in 22-250 shooting the 50 gr TNT bullets from speer. Non coated bullets could be driven to just shy of 3600 fps before loosing accuracy and letting loose. While coated bullets have been driven to solid 4000 fps velocities. I have seen this in this rifle and a Savage M110 with same results.

I have also seen a standard Ruger M77 rip these bullets apart at 250 fps less velocity.

I would agree that barrel smoothness and moly have alot to do with a bullet staying solid.

Thanks for the reply!!

50

Interesting post. I never really thought about the possibility that moly would allow frangible projectiles to be rotated faster prior to coming apart, but it does make sense. I plan to put this phenomena to the test.

With respect to the initial question, I would have to say that my 243 AI (Scheider 1 in 14" barrel) really likes the Hornady 87 BTHPs. This rifle has always been kind of picky, but it will shoot the 87 Horns with H4350 into little teeny holes. Velocity is around 3480 ft/s.

Another strange thing about this particular rifle is that it shoots pretty mcuh everything about the same POI @ 100 yards except the 70 Nosler BTs, which print 1 inch to the left, same elevation. I never really tried to make them work, just moved to the 75 Vmax or 70 Sierra HPBT.

This rifle has taken several deer and cow elk with the 87 Horn, and they do work well on that size of critter. Generally shots hare head or neck, but a cow elk struck in the ribs with this setup never goes more then 75 yards. Before anyone gets thier undies in a wad, our cow elk hunting is a depredation deal, and killing them with a 6MM or even a speedy .224 is not that tough. You don't need to burn 70+ grains of powder to kill an elk.

dmallard

I have used the 75 gr Sierra HP since 1957 for varmints and match shooting. They served me well.

Now I am shooting the 80 Blitz for match at 200 yards.

My 6mm twists are 1-10 and the cartridges are .243 and 6mm Rem. Int.

Aw c'mom Fifty! My skin's even thicker than my head. Besides, I never saw your post as anything but inquistive. I really enjoy comparing notes with knowledgable folks who have firsthand data. I'm glad you mentioned the .22-250 'speriments, because I neglected to! My results have mirrored yours and to an even greater extent than was evident in the 6mms. Rough .22-250 barrels are a fertile laboratory for every new theory, at least in my garage.

I doubt I'll try to sneak any bullet smaller than .30 into an elk since my opportunities are fleeting and few. Very few. If one arises, I have to take it, however it appears. Where are you hunting (culling?) Mr Mallard and how do I get in on it? What terrific luck! If there is an afterlife, it likely includes elk depredation permits, I'll betcha.

Cheers

Redial

In my 6mm Ackley the 87 grain V-Max @3700 (it has a 28 1/2" bull barrel) not exactly a carry gun. In my 6mm Rem. 700 HB Laminate the only thing it will shoot is the 87 grain flat base Hornady. The second gun will not shoot a boat tail. My hunting bullet in it is the 95 grain Nosler Partition. Both of these bullets shoot extremely accurate in this rifle. Good Hunting. "Z"

Redial,
While our annual event is not by definition a "culling" operation, at times it has resembled that. There are a few large ranches in south central MT that have special arrangements with the FWP to allow cow elk to be harvested without a special permit, all one needs is a valid MT elk tag and written landowner permission. These hunts are generally restircted to the last week of the general season.

While it can seem a bit like work at times, it also allows for a great opportunity to witness a lot of cow elk being harvested. I have been affiliated with this operation since the late 1970s, not sure how many wapiti I have "jerked the goodies out of" and loaded in the truck but it is a bunch. We also run a very succesfull trophy hunting operation during the general season.

Over the week that these cow hunts usually run, I am typically involved in the harvest of 10 to 20 elk. Used everything from a 17 Rem to a 44 Mag Anaconda. Generally head shoot them with my 243 AI or 25-06 these days, and always ABOVE the road...

I've had pretty good results with the 85-grain Nosler Partition bullets so far in 6mm-284. The 55-grain Ballistic Tips seem to have good accuracy and lots of zip. I also have a Savage 24V in 6 X 45mm, have not killed anything with it yet but use the same 85-grain Noslers in that gun.

Tom

Sierra 60 grain hollow points at about 3500 fps for an accurate & dependable small varmint bullet. The 95 grain Nosler b-tip for deer. Also very good results on targets & coyotes with Speer's good old 105 grain soft point, although I never had a deer in my sights when carrying those. This is all from a 1974 vintage Rem 700 BDL with the factory 22" sporter barrel. 'Bout 3000 rounds through it now and getting a bit tired. Time for a new Lilja?

Hey guys, Thanks for your input. Looks like a pretty good representation of 6 mm bullets so far w/ emphasis on BT's in the light/mid wt range and Sierra 85 gr/Nosler 95 gr BT in the heavy wt range. Don't see much mention of the V-Max's.... Have you guys just not shot them much yet or have you had unsatisfactory results? Gary T.

75 gr. V-Max @ 3,550 with H4350 in a 22" bbl'd 243 Win.

70 gr. Sierra Matchking
68 gr. Berger Moly
90 gr. Berger Moly

I use a Remington 700 Varmint Special 6 mm Remington with 24 in. barrel. Of all the powders I've tried in this rifle (Varget, IMR 3031, H 380, IMR 4350, H 4350, IMR 4831, IMR 4064, and possibly one or more others), IMR 4064 works best.

[ 08-01-2002, 07:42: Message edited by: LE270 ]