Can I get help with a few questions:

Does the 221 fireball have any Effectiveness advantage over 223?

is the 223 too much recoil to watch through the scope after shooting? I do not want to miss the show with muzzle jump.

Can the 223 be loaded down to quieter loads to be like the 221 fireball?

Is there any reason not to just go with the cheap-to-shoot 223?

Remember this is for a first varmint rifle. SO I could always get another one later....

thanks

Jamie

.223 would be hard to beat. should out perform a fireball since it has more powder capacity. can be loaded with blue dot powder for reduced velocity loads. which in turn reduces recoil also. i load 13.5gr of blue dot in my 14" .223 contender with 40gr nosler balistic tips. produces around 2900fps as per a friends chronograph. reduces recoil enough to allow me to shoot a riflescope on a handgun. mighty accurate too! 3 shots less than 1/2" at 100 just the other day.

I would say the 223 would be the first choice of those three for a FIRST varmint rifle. It will do anything the 221 fireball will do and they're usually not a real tempermental cartridge to load for.

I have no problem holding a 223 on target through recoil but I shoot off a bipod and hold it down with my right hand (I'm left-handed).

I have a savage 222rem double barrel with a 20 gauge on bottom. I read that the 222rem used to be the shooters choice on the benches before the 223 was out and about. After looking at the numbers on the 221 fireball I'm not quite sure why anyone short of squirel hunters would want one. If you look at all the loads for the 223 you can hunt anything from chipmunk to deer with them. With the 221 I just don't see it. The only reason I keep my 222 is because I got a good deal on it and it is really is a good bullet. But I really wanted was a 223. Have fun

decided on a winchester stealth in 223, with 6-18 power scope, from a fellow AR forum member.

Thanks for the input.

Jameister

Jamiester: Ah, you will like that fat barrelled Stealth. I have one in .223 wearing a Leupold 4.5-14x40. I've been shooting a bunch of 55 gr. Noslers of the old solid base design and some 69 gr. Sierra MKs. The SMKs of course, out shoot the Noslers. I use 748 for the 55s and Varget for the 69s. Have fun!

Cool , new varmint gun , I think your making a wise choice with the .223 . The availability of loads and components ect. is excellent . You should be able to smack coyotes out quite a ways . I have been hunting coyotes pretty regular for the last couple of years , with a 22-250 , but my partner shoots a .223 . Nothing wrong with either of them , seen a few dogs go down a ways out with the .223 .

The answer to your first question is that the .221 is quieter than the .223, and the .17 Mach IV is more quieter. Quieter may be very important to some land owners and some dumb animals. I have all 3. Bought them in the order of .223, .221. and .17. Would do it again. Cheap to shoot and longest range are main reasons to go with the .223.

Jameister:

Go with the 223. If you don't handload, get into it. You can use fireball reload info in a 223 case and it will give the same performance as is listed for the 221. You can make a 223 into a 221, but not viceversa.

For economy of componets also, the 223 has it all over the other rounds. I think Fireball brass is 30 cents a round at our local discount gun shop. That is $30.00 per hundred. From Cabelas I can get cleaned and deprimed 223 brass from them for $34.00 for a thousand rounds. And the fireball brass is a lot cheaper than the 17 Mach IV, or you don't have to go thru the hassle of reforming 223 brass to the Mach 4.

I load 223 stuff from 22 Long Rifle velocities to about 3700 fps with 40 grain bullets. It is versatile and if you don't over load it, the brass will last forever. Military surplus brass will take a lot of abuse on overloads also, if you get crazy or stupid at the reload bench.

The 223 Remmington would be my choice of the 3 listed. The 222 is more accurate, though.