I am having real trouble making up my mind on a Rifle that has shown up in a small sport/pawn shop here in SW Montana! The Rifle is a Remington 700 Sendero Model in caliber 270 Winchester! The Rifle is absolutely mint! I at first thought it was new but upon questioning the owner of the shop he states it was previously owned and not much on its history other than that. The finish is the matte style and where the scope mounting bases usually mar the matte finish on the action there are no marks or lines what so ever! There is absolutely no blue wear on the muzzle! I can find no evidence of use anywhere on the Rifle! Anyway the price is $525.00! Knowing how the neat fella that owns the place deals with me and my past history of cash purchases I believe I could get the Rifle for $480.00 or so! No bulges in the barrel, nice trigger, no copper in the barrel, long action, with no gear along with it! I am getting the hots for this not quite Varmint Rifle - not quite Big Game Rifle! But the Sendero's I have been familiar with have all shot well and have given their owners good service. My latest Sendero is a 220 Swift and it shoots very well also!
Any suggestions out there?
270 on Varmints?
Heavy Antelope and Mule Deer Rifle?
Hmmmm..... I have got it bad!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I think it would be a fine rifle. You should be able to get some great speeds with the 26" barrel. Maybe a 110 gr. V-Max @ 3300 fps+ would be some load! I believe Remington no longer makes this rifle, so you may not get another crack at one if you pass up this 270.

Oh yeah, a 150 gr. Ballistic Tip @ 3000 fps would be an awesome long range deer and antelope load. Packs 1500 ft-lbs of energy out to 490 yards! Impressive!

[ 07-07-2003, 22:35: Message edited by: todbartell ]

Varmitguy
I've got one that was purchased back in the mid-80's. It is a fantastic gun. All I've done to it was have the trigger worked down to 2.5 lbs.
This gun shoots as well as any factory gun I own. It will hold 1" or less at 100 yds with factory ammo. I shoot Texas whitetail with mine.
I'm sure you could use it as a heavy varmit rifle with the lighter weight bullets.
Go for it! One can never have too many guns .

Hollywood

Sounds like an awful good deal! The 270 and Sendero go good together, like deer steak and gravy!

Thanks for the advice guys! I am going to sell my Honda Trail 90 and buy the dang Rifle! Where is my damn tax refund check? Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are probably spending it somewhere getting manicures and hair stylings!
I will have to make a play for the Rifle and if I get it - just put it away for the future.
I have always liked the 270 Winchester caliber I have just never used it for Varminting (other than the occassional Coyote). I could see how the 270 Sendero down Texas way would be an excellent choice!
Thanks for the encouragement!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Although word is that Remington quality has gone the way of the typewriter l still think that this rifle is a good deal. It is likely a model that was made a few years back and combined with the caliber selection of a 270 l would think that it is a win-win.

Good luck.

Just for giggles, try out some 110 V-Maxes with 51.0 grains of H-380, WLR primers in R-P cases. It's not the hottest load out there, but it shoots really well in my M70 Winchester, and the POI is the same as my deer load, all the way to 300 yards. That load will shoot 5/8" in my rifle, at about 3050fps. I kinda like it, and keep about 40 of them loaded at any one time "just in case I see something that needs killin' "

Personally VarmintGuy--I'd be all over it, I feel that the 270 is one of the better long range varmint rigs out there. I've used up a couple of tubes shooting long range chucks/yotes etc.

With its 26" tube you should be able to run 3300 with the 130 Ballistic Tips or the 135 MK's burning R22. I've found 3200 with those bullets common out of 22" tubes using R22.

Or you can just go to the 150 and R22 and run it at 3100 plus or minus a few.

While it would be fun to try the flyweights out in it I've found the 130's-150's to do every bit as good and plus it is easy to use the same load come October. I'm waiting to get a hold of the 140's in both Speer Deep Shocks and the Accubond.
Either load will rock those yotes and chucks just fine. And of course will work fine for bigger game as well.

By the way how was the Salmon fly hatch your way this spring?

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dog

If you don't grab it....... we'll take up a collection for ya.

It'll pay for the materials so you can build a a$$kicking machine.

Every time you regret being slow, retarded, stupid, or otherwise not getting it, you can just hitch yourself up and pull the string .....

The machine will kick your a$$ for 10 minutes.

Ed.

[ 07-09-2003, 11:42: Message edited by: Winger Ed ]

Varmint Guy:

I don't think you NEED that rifle at all! I know you have a 260, you have other calibers that will do exactly the same thing that this one would do for you, so You Don't Need it!
( that was your conscience speaking to make your wife happy)

( now this is your conscience speaking to make YOU Happy)

Are You Nuts??? Do you want someone to sneak down there behind your back and snap that up before you do?? Speaking of Jesse Jackson, good idea. Pick up the rifle, then send Jesse the bill. List it as entertainment for the Rainbow Coalitions Celebrity Ball in Dillon Montana.
Jesse would probably never know the difference.

Then you have a great rifle, obtained with a little poetic justice to its acquistion.

If I no longer had all the guns I really DIDN'T NEED, I would have an empty gun cabinet. There is not one I really need. However it is full of about 50 that I really wanted!

While I am a big time 06 Improved fan--that is what I call the 270-- I would love to see Big Green do the Sendero in a 06--any ideas or thoughts as to why they haven't?? Seems like they've done about everything else.

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dog

Years ago when I was a two-rifle kid (gulp) and lived in S.Ariz. I seemed to be able to keep only one (270&22/250) shooting at a time. Mostly the 270. I killed every thing that walk, crawled, or ran around on the desert. The 270 fit every task, some better then others, but I never stayed home for lack of a smoke-pole. I finaly cooked the throat on p. dogs in the northern part of the state,but for deer, javlina,jackrabbits,greyfox, bobcat, coyotes, and one called lion it did just fine.
The two bullets I shot(they had the same point of impact) were the 130gr.Sierra and the 90gr. Sierra HP. The latter is a wicked bullet that really takes the coyotes apart.
Call em in close______Pete

One of my cousins in Idaho owns the very rifle you described, in fact I purchased it for him from an ad he saw when he was in Nebraska hunting. He now shoots everything from rockchucks to elk with it and has never looked back. If you don't want it let me know I'll take it. Thanks "Z"

Good Hunting,

Did you pick it up yet? If not, SHAME SHAME!!!! That long action will make a heckuva an action to rebarrel to something like the 6mm Rem when you wear the barrel out!!(been there, done that!) GO GET IT TOMORROW!!!(well today since it's past 12:00!!!!! GHD

Mark,
savage makes their heavy barrel sendero type rifle in 30/06 in case you are interested.

Have been looking at ordering one for a nephew, with the accutrigger.

I think it would be fine for long range.
Even if the /06 is not 'trendy' by long range standards. these titles come from armchair theorists who have no worked with the cartridge. If they had, they would keep their mouths shut!

The /06 is not my favorite cartridge by a long shot. But the only reason is, because it is so boring.... their is nothing an /06 really won't do in a pinch, unless it weighs as much as a Volkswagen or something, and is ready to eat you.
Sort of like a hammer, no glitz, just does its job!

Seafire--which of the Savage numbers is it (for the 06)--I always seems to get dizzy looking at all of their models and numbers.

Thanks for your time

"DOG"

PS Pete how's the health? I just had knee surgery again two days ago so am moving slow and have 6-8 hours of rehab a day for the next six weeks. Alas I am moaning a bit not complaining I know your challenges far outweigh this!!!! You're in my prayers daily.

One more thing I do think it would be fun to build a Sendero type of 06-imagine the speeds one could get out a 26" tube! It would be giving certain hot shot mags a good run--and still a ton of a lot older!
Come to think of it I may just have to start doing some work with my Fathers B/78 in a 26" square barrel after it gets back from the Dr in Mo.

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dog

Mark,
Our father, Bob Hagel, was able to hit a full 2900fps. with a 180gr. bullet (Game, loads, and Pratical Ballistics-book) in the 06 using a 24in. barrel. Add about 40ft. per inch and you are up to 3000fps. Also seems to me the 06 was THE match cartridge before the advent of the 308.
I can see alot of merit in hunting coyotes with a long barreled 06 using a fast expanding 180gr.bullet such as the Nosler B.T. Think of the wind drift and sustained energy. Heck, even Ol Elmer would be proud.
Call em in close_____Pete

PS-Chemo is tougher (different kind) this time. Thank goodness for anti-naseau pills. I'am getting bored watching TV and looking at the computer but not much else to do. Temp. got to 103* yesterday.

Mark,
More thoughts on the tired old 06.
Last summer I picked up an exellent Sears FN mauser in 06 with a very light 22in. barrel.I put it in a very nice classic stock I had made up with a blind magazine/ala Rem. ADL for a 98 mauser some years before. Anyway, one of the loads I worked up with a 150gr Sierra came in at 3050fps. and teased an inch for groups. All this without plastering the case head against the bolt face. Pete

BUY IT! I have a Ruger 77 MkII that will put 110 and 130g bullets into the same point of impact - let me know if you want the loads. It's lots of fun on varmints (vermin) and sharpens up your skills on the larger game. You will probably find it a bit hard on your shoulder if you're shooting HEAPS of shots, but the lighter bullets aren't that much harder that the 25-06. If our gun laws allowed it, I'd get it myself. Plus, you get a rifle that can be used on larger game. (And this comes from a shooter who is a great fan of the 223Rem)! Don't expect any usable skins or meat, tho!

Rugeruser: And everyone else. I slipped into the shop in question again this afternoon and tried to play coy about the Rifle. I inspected the bolt face again and I do not think it has been shot much if at all! No marks anywhere and no modifications. It is just clean as a whistle! I did get my refund check today from the Montana state game deptartment for being unsuccesful in the Moose, Sheep and Mt. Goat drawings so I have $225.00 the VarmintWife does not know about! Monday I think I will make my play for the Rifle as I need to go to Bozeman tomorrow (Saturday) and do a Gunshow there!
The same shop also had a nifty used scope that just came in this week which also caught my eye! It is a newer model Leupold straight 12X with the target knob for elevation only. It also has the pleasing Leupold fine dot with the tapered crosshairs leading to the dot. Someone has anodized the scope in an army style olive drab finish! It is all olive drab except for the narrow (1/4") adjustable objective ring (which retains the original black finish and gold yardage markings. Also the ocular eyepiece ring (1/4" wide) is in the original gloss black finish. The fella was asking $225.00 and I inquired of a cash out price and the answer was $200.00! If I could afford a scope right now I would jump on that. The lenses and image were perfect! Just the useful funny O.D finish. I happen to have a set of old unused Redfield Real Tree camo finished rings AND bases in my stash o'stuff! The bases are for a pre-64 Winchester Model 70 though.
Damn where is my tax refund check!
I NEED MONEY!
Thanks again all for the encouragement!
More later
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Pete I heard a rumor last night that Bob Hagle had passed away-have you heard anything about it?

I am gonna call down there tonight and talk to Leah (his wife) and see what gives.

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dog

Varmintguy I am gonna go to the show tomorrow also-when are you gonna be here?

Pete-I am not in chemo therapy but I do have my leg in a coninous motion machine for 6-8 hours a day since my surgery the other day. Your right not much on tv!

Dog

"GET TO THE HILL"

Mark: I am going to do an estate sale thing here in Dillon at 0830 hours then head for Bozeman. I am guessing at 0900 hours I will leave Dillon. It is 2 hours to there so I am guessing 1100 hours-ish! I will have my wifes cell phone with me as I just got a call from the west coast 2 hours ago regarding a work detail for a private investigations company, and I may be heading for the coast at a minutes notice. I hope to hear back from them tonight regarding this money making detail! OH BOY MORE GUNS!
Anyway I will have the cell phone on and I will E-mail you the VarmintWifes number! Just call it when you are there and I will answer and vector in on you!
Gee! Thats why time was created so everything would not happen at once! I sat around all winter wanting to work and nothing! Now its summer and the jobs are all coming up at once! I mean I have a life! But I do need that Sendero and I do need to go find some other stuff at the Gunshow! What to do?
More later
Look for an E-mail if I can find your E-mail address.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Mark,
If that is true about Bob Hagel the shooting community has lost a good man. I stopped in and visited a coulpe of times at Gibbonsville on my to Lemhi for antelope.
He never achieved a big name like Jack or Elmer but I think he took(takes?) a back seat to no one as far hunting this part of the country and general rifle/handgun shooting and reloading.

Sounds like you got a knee replacement, good luck reovering from it, I'll put you in my prayers for a change. Proverbs tell us not to long for our youth and despise our old age-ME, I'am 57 and do look back just a bit. I'am still pretty tough when not on chemo. With me it's when my wife was young and pretty and the girls were still small.
My wife is still pretty but the girls are grown and I have two grandsons. One, is already gun-crazy and its up to me and his other grandpa (also a gun nut and shooting buddy) to raise him RIGHT . Callem in close____Pete

PS-- Maybe we could do a goper shoot sometime.

Pedro -not a knee replacement but I got my hands full anyway--I am 44 -45 in November.

When did Bob pass-can't believe I ddin't hear about this earlier-I'd of traveled down to the ceremony.

He was indeed one ofthe best.

My knee is killing me and my grandson is calling out for grub -I had better go and make some cakes and deer sausage.

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dog

ps email me sometime I'd love to chat with you away from all of this doberdogg@aol.com

Hey Pedro and all the rest--hold the music

I just got off the phone with Bob's wife--he is still with us-not feeling realy good but he is above ground.

As she said she said she is glad the rumor is not true! So am I !

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dog

Alright!!!

Mark,
Sounds good, I also would enjoy chatting with you.
Look for me about the middle of next week when the chemo starts to wear off. Pete

Pete e-mail me with your number when you get a chance

Dog

doberdogg@aol.com
406-388-0325

Well just before closing I went into my local shop and used my Wally Siebert bore inspection tool on the Sendero's chamber and the leades of the rifling. They were perfect! Then I used my 10X jewelers loop on the bolt face and on the matte finished area around the scope base holes. No scope had ever been on the receiver I became convinced! And I will be damned if the bolt face showed any evidence of firing! Then I decided to show my hand and took the Rifle to the counter and ask directly about the known history of the Rifle. It being marked with a used tag and yet appearing to be unfired. It turns out that the previous owner had won the thing at one of the many local banquet fundraiser type things and was not a Rifleman! He was a shotgunner and traded the Sendero in on a Benelli! So I plea my case for a lower price! I think I actually had both eyes tearing up! My man felt sorry for me and allowed it to leave for $485.00! I jumped on it. Well I jumped most of the way! I put $100.00 down on it and have a balance of $380.00 to be paid in 90 days! Yeah once I got home I noticed the proprietor had listed on my layaway receipt $480.00 for the original price. I will remind him of the $485.00 original agreed upon when I pick it up the first of the month! And I will have to buy matte finished bases and rings from him anyway. I only have blued finish and SA bases in my stash at home!
Anyway I tried the trigger on this rig and it was EXTREMELY crisp! But it was heavy - I am guessing 5 1/2 pounds. The bolt sleeve has the old style (no J-lock) shroud so I am sure it is 2 years old at least.
Anyway I am very happy this evening and now need to sell some stuff to get an appropriate scope for the 270 Sendero. I am leaning toward lots of power as I will be using it for long range Chucks, Coyotes, Antelope and maybe a Powder River Mule Deer! So maybe a good old 6.5 X 20 Leupold. Matte finished with Du-plex.
Any other suggestions out there for a non night Hunting long range scope? At this point money is a factor and we all know how expensive the Leupolds are these days! If I could get out to western Washington I have a cash and carry source out there at wholesale prices on Leupolds but I may not be doing that for a while!
I know, I am sick and have the Varmint Rifle madness to the point I should seek HELP! But I am intrigued by this Rifle in this configuration! I saw my first Deer harvested with a 270 Winchester and was amazed by it! I was maybe 9 years old and our family had returned to the hills around their old homesteaded ranch in NE Oregon. I thought my uncle who shot the Deer was just looking at the Deer through his scope - it was so far away! I was amazed by the shot and its effects! Been an admirer of the 270 ever since!
Probably Redding dies also needed - I have been getting really straight ammunition coming out of these dies lately and have been using them for 6 years or more. I did recently buy a set of RCBS 220 Swift dies (previously owned but appeared unused - Gunshow bought) for my new (to me) Remington Sendero. The bullets came out with under .002" runouts! So maybe everyone is making better dies of late.
I guess where I really need help is suggestions for "A" bullet that will work on Rock Chucks, Coyotes, Antelope and Mule Deer! Suggestions glady accepted - loads and bullets - please and thanks in advance!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Buy the rifle. Then re barrel/chamber in 6/5 -06 Ackley.

'Nuff said.

Well thanks for the moral support on the Sendero purchase! I paid it off and picked it up this afternoon! I could not even afford to buy rings and bases for it! Thats OK I can't afford the scope either so do not need the rings and bases as yet!
I did pick up the Redding dies yesterday in Missoula along with 20 pieces of brass so I can figure out a perfect (just .003" of the lands) over all length tonight! That will keep me busy. And I can do a trigger job also! Yeah its gonna be a fun night doing those two chores!
Thanks again for the support and suggestions!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Varmintguy-cool deal you got that-there is one in Livingston that has tempted me many times.

Get some R22 and some 130 Noz Bt's and get to rocking--you'll be able to run 3300 with this combo.

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dog

Mark: Yes I am sorry we did not get to meet up at the last Bozeman show. I hope your leg is healing and feeling better!
I am writing that down on my new page for this Rifle in my Handloaders Log - RL-22 & Nosler Ballistic Tips. Yeah this 26" barrel ought to get everything there is to get out of the 270 Winchester!
I used a perfectly wonderful pre-64 Model 70 in 270 Winchester on Big Game for at least 20 years! Finally after killing everything from Antelope to Mt. Goat, all three kinds of western Deer and Bear I had to retire it out of respect! That was at least 15 years ago and I have not done anything with the 270 since then. That was way before the Ballistic Tips came along anyway. I have been concentrating on the 280 Remington as my main go to Deer Rifle and the 7mm Magnum for Elk since retiring my 270.
Thanks for the tips on powder and bullets and I might just go all out (load development wise) to make that bullet work as my all around go to loading!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy