Fortunately, many forum members are from the United Kingdom. As far as I can determine, the World War I and II edition of British 455 ammunition lists a 265-grain FMJ bullet @ 600 fps. Compared with any military version of 45 Colt or 45 ACP, this is anemic.

While 455 Webley military ammunition has a first-class reputation as self-defense against unclothed and scantily clothed primitive combatants in myriad colonial skirmishes and wars, how effective was the ammunition when self-defending against winter clad German soldiers in northwestern Europe? The Webley Mk. Vs and VIs may have been used for self-defense seldom during World War II. World War I was almost certainly a different bag of cats. Trench warfare placed a premium on close-quarters combat in defense AND attack. In the absence of sub-machineguns and, excluding the AEF, short-barreled shotguns, handguns were a valid choice. Was this ballistically challenged .45-caliber ammunition satisfactory for this sort of combat?

Most of the testing I seen of military 45acp ammo showed a velocity in the mid 700s. the availability of chronographs has shed the light of day on many velocity claims.

The effectiveness of the .455 Webley was indeed inferior to the loadings of the L.C. or ACP.Not that I would want to be shot by one.The British pistol calibres in that era all seemed to be rather anemic.A good case in point was the .38 S+W that we lend-leased to Britain + was issued to the RAF in the famous Battle Over Britain. The Germans however thought it enough of a treat that it was posted that if a downed airman was in possession of one loaded with lead bullets he was to be executed on the spot.I own a 2nd. model S+W that is hash marked with the lend-lease gliffs that was originally chambered in .455 but was rebore to L.C. after it came home,one of few.

One of the theories that at least the Brits had was that it was better to have a slow bullet .That way the impact would take place over longer time therefore have a better effect !!!
I don't agree !
Having read many reports and articles from the Brits fighting in places like Afghanistan [ !!! ]and their conclusion that big bore is the way to go, I don't understand the comments about velocity .Unless that theory was made by someone who had never seen action.

One would think a 45 caliber hole in the body would take the fight out of most people..

I had and used a 4" Webley MkVI 455. With 250gr cast it was effective enough on a few red deer and feral goats at close range. it also accounted for rabbits and possums with a variety of jacketed bullets I tried.

The guy I brought the Webley off had used it in the Pacific Islands and he related to me that a WW1 vet who had served in the trenches reckoned there was nothing better when they had breakthroughs into German trenches when tunneling than to back yourself into a corner with a Webley in each hand, the vet apparently swore by the downing power of the big Webley.

There is also the well documented case of Gurka who ran into a German patrol while out scouting and who dispatched 5 Germans with his Webley and a 6th with his Khukuri (large curved knife). To achieve this he must have had good knock down power with his Webley

True!Kudos now for the 45 ACP. A slow moving freight train weighing 230 g.s + travelling 780 FPS WILL stop your opponent.Try to remember that John Browning was smarter than you.

quote:

Originally posted by NormanConquest:
True!Kudos now for the 45 ACP. A slow moving freight train weighing 230 g.s + travelling 780 FPS WILL stop your opponent.Try to remember that John Browning was smarter than you.

Some times some times not

Always wanted a Webley for purely historical purposes.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
Always wanted a Webley for purely historical purposes.

Read this well make you drool and sad.

http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2...asures-of-india.html

P Dog:

Thanks for that. There is hope!

If considered needed my Mk.VI .455 would be my bedside sidearm.

The reason for choosing it over my Colt 1911A1 is simply that IF I have to fire it indoors I still have some hearing left...and at point blank range the 265 grain lead bullet should be as good as the .45ACP..

I came into the habit years ago when I was raising 3 young boys.You CAN NOT hide anything in the house from children.Thus I never kept loaded revolvers in the house. I kept a 1911 in the bedstead because the kids did not have the strength to work the slide or operate the piece.

I have read all the above and wonder what the upper pressure limits onthe Webley may be; or in other words , what is the maximum velocity that could be loaded?

We 'Brits' used the Webley and eatlier Enfields in .476 and .455 for many years. Most of that time with pointed, hollow base, lead bullet.

It was only after WWI that the last .455 cartridge, the Mk VI with a metal covered version of the 265 grain lead Mk II cartridge came into use.

Other cartridges were the hollow node and hollow base Mk III (like a hollow base wadcutter profile at BOTH ends) and the flat fronted Mk IV (like a .455 hollow base wadcutter). Mk III and Mk IV both weighed 218 grains.

But....here's the truth. Any Enfield .476, or Webley or Enfield .455 is a revolver. So a Colt 1911 in .45 ACP or .455 W & S Automatic is better.

Velocity on any Webley is limited by its design. Ues the cylinder could be made of 'magnum strength' steel. But...the weak point is the top strap.

The top strap fails (it stretches) before any sort of velocity can be loaded for to cause the cylinder to burst. It won't, the top strap. break easily on a Mark V or Mk VI Webley as it has side bosses on it that inlet into the frame.

Been there and done it.

A couple of years ago I bought 2 revolvers from a young man that was selling his grandfathers possessions.One I kept,a 1926 Colt New Service in .45 L.C. w/ factory pearl grips.The other I gave to my preacher friend that was going through his divorce + needed extra cash. It was a Colt 1917 W/ factory pearl grips.It would not allow the cylinder to close w/ moon clips or .45 auto rim. I told him to take it to a gunsmith + see what was going on so he could sell it in good faith.He tells me after the fact that it was not .45ACP but .45 ELY + he had it modifided for the use of moon clips.That is when I looked it up in the blue book + got sick.The original was worth a lot of money.Seems the old man bought up a lot of guns during the depression when people needed money + he just sat on them.

quote:

Originally posted by Ole Miss Guy:
I have read all the above and wonder what the upper pressure limits onthe Webley may be; or in other words , what is the maximum velocity that could be loaded?

It's BP territury!
MK1 = 17,4kpsi
MK2 = 13kpsi

At least the Mk.VI is proofed for smokeless/cordite, not sure about Mk. III and IV..

I think you'll find the most relevant point in this discussion in the middle of Enfieldspares' post. This cartridge was developed in the day of the break-top revolver. At that point in history, round development was limited by that fact perhaps as much as, if not more so than operational needs.

We've seen the same thing in rifles of certain design in the 19th century. Their cartridges were, by design, much weaker than they otherwise could have been, and in fact, later became.

Horray once again for the top strap revolver. I still adhere to the fact that John Browning was the primary factor of our arms development.

TWL says what Walter Winans said. Except he got there in 1911.

"There is no pint in learning to shoot the revolver as it is now obsolete". (The Automatic Pistol and How To Shoot It)

In the world of .455" and .38" S & W revolevers (or .380" MkI or Mk II depending on bullet) then, yes, the top break Webley or top break Enfield is King of the Hill.

But that's the problem. There are better cartridges chambered in better revolvers of better, stronger, metal.