260Remguy,


YOu give a good list, but failed to note that of the South Dakota class only the Massachusetts and Alabama survive as museum ships.
South Dakota and Indiana were both scrapped after the war, as was the USS Washington. of that class of two ships only the North Carolina remains as a museum ship.

And aside from those battleships only the USS Texas has not been mentioned, she is a Century old WW1 relic and is in need of a permanent drydock if she is to survive another 10 years let alone another century.

No other dreadnaught battleships survive anywhere in the world.

ONLY the United States retained any as historical relics

So if you wish to see a "Battleship" and don't own a deep submergence submarine to go see one of the many that litter the world's various oceans you have to come to the U.S. just to see one.

Personally I'm lucky to have THREE (of a total of EIGHT) within 400 miles
The USS New Jersey at Camden, NJ
The USS North Carolina at Wilmingon, NC
and the USS Massachussetts at Fall River, MA


But of all the survivors only the Iowas remain as a complete class

The Iowas may be around for a long, long time, because they were constructed of a corrosion resistant steel

I was told the same as A de G. That nowadays if you can "see" a ship visually, or on radar, you WILL hit it. But that in the case of the Iowa class the missile that hits it won't either penetrate it or sink it. That's because no one designed those missiles to be able to defeat that thickness of armour.

The same with any air launched anti-ship missile as the days of attacks DOWNWARDS through the top deck like a dive bomber attack are now history.

However we "Brits" at least still use old WWII type torpedoes (as well as modern types) on our submarines and that the best weapon to nowadays sink a WWII battleship is a WWII type torpedo. As was proved with the ex USS Phoenix aka cruiser "General. Belgrano" in the Falklands war.

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Originally posted by Grizzly Adams:

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Originally posted by tasco 74:

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Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
An Iowa class Battleship can put more destruction (non nuclear ) with its 16 inch guns in less time, with less risk to personal and at less expense than any other method, as long as the targets are within its range.

No doubt WWII (The War We Wanted to Win, and We Won) proved that the Aircraft Carrier IS the Ultimate Warship, I think there is still a place for a BIG GUN... After all 16 inch shells are a lot cheaper than a rocket of equal power.

done a lot of research on the iowa class battleships.... one of the facts that REALLY impressed me was the 16 inch rifles "yes they are rifled" can put all 9 2000 lb+ shells into a target the size of a football field from 20 miles away.............

Those big rifles have always intrigued me, not just the performance, but it must have been a monster job making them.

http://www.battlecruisers.org/HeavyGun.htm

Grizz

If anyone has a chance, going to the displays at Aberdeen Proving Grounds is a once in a lifetime thrill for gun nuts. Lots of info on the big 16" rifles, including how the extras made for battleships never built were deployed as coastal defense guns. One is on outdoor display and when I went, you could climb around on it. The San Louis Hotel in Galveston was built on the site of Galveston's batteries; some of the original concrete bunker works are incorporated into the landscaping on the grounds.

The size of the guns coming out of a turret is impressive enough; when you see the whole gun muzzle to breach it is astounding.

Other tidbits: Hogkiller has a single grain of powder from a powder bag. It is roughly the size of the cylinder of a Ruger Bearcat with longitudinal holes the full length to set the burn rate.

As for the cost/benefit of the Iowa class ships, our fleet of B-52s can carry 16 to 18 Mk 84 2000 lb bombs each and deliver them with nearly the same accuracy anywhere on land or sea. Add in the B-1 and B-2. And they can strike in hours, not after days of sailing. That in itself renders the cost of sending 2000 lb artillery shells from one or two battleships a moot point.

What ultimately killed the refitted Iowas was the cost of manning them. They're manpower intensive, with somewhat limited utility. Within 30 miles, they're kings of the battlespace, but even with tomahawks in box launchers, they have limited striking power inland. To refit them again would cost about 650 million each, not counting the repairs to the Iowa to get her third turret working again. The economics of 2200 sailors in a battle wagon with highly specialized training that isn't interchangeable with other vessels makes them limited in their utility. Plus they burn a LOT of bunker fuel. Most of the rest of the fleet doesn't even use that fuel anymore.

However, despite all that, those guns are astounding. 1/4 MOA capable with throwing a shipping container across the length of Manhattan. They experimented with some sabot 8" rounds that were accurate at 60+ miles. Not to mention the 8 double 5" turrets left after they installed the tomahawk box launchers. That's a monstrous amount of steel that can be brought down in a short period of time.

The development of smart munitions changed the fire support requirements significantly. Sdb, vipers, jdams, copperheads, excaliburs...opened up a lot of options on how to blow things up without throwing a freight train at them. But from a pure explosion/destruction geek perspective, I would much rather have BB-63 still going boom.

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Personally I'm lucky to have THREE (of a total of EIGHT) within 400 miles The USS New Jersey at Camden, NJ The USS North Carolina at Wilmingon, NC and the USS Massachussetts at Fall River, MA

When I lived in NH, I saw the Massachusetts several times. Impressive, to say the least!

One time, my parents were visiting. As we were walking toward her, we stopped at the submarine docked there. Just about the time I came up on deck, there suddenly was a barrage from several of the 5" guns. Holy crap! Shook the sub's hull!

Turns out they had a re-enactment of the WW2 surrender up on the deck of the Mass. Nearly 100 men in uniform came down the gangplank. My mom asked one why they hadn't fired the 16" guns. The ensign replied "Maam, if we did that we'd blow out the windows in those houses over there!"

A great experience..

In 1967 I was at the Philadelphia Naval Shipyard waiting for my separation papers to come through. The USS new Jersey was in dry dock being readied for service in the Vietnam war. We were allowed aboard and did get to see those huge 16" rifles. At the time they were still looking for sailors to man the ship. Being on a WWII era Midway class carrier probably would have kinda sorta been a great help in getting a berth aboard the New Jersey. But at the time I was just about finished with my enlistment and wanted to get on with my life. One thing you have to remember about that time was that it was a lot easier to get a job after your military service was done. Many places didn't want to hire a guy who was facing the draft and after training him would loose him to the draft. Still all in all, I do look back at my time in the navy as probably the most significent period in my 17 to 21 year old life at that time. Frank

Just another big target.

From a Bubblehead.