I saw Bob Munden perform in person some years back.

He is amazingly fast. Two shots sound like one.

George

For two shots, there are lots of folks who are amazingly quick with their impractical for field use handgun quick-draw rigs. I knew a local telephone repairman in Hollister, California who was every bit as quick as the fellow in this German video, back in 1960.

But, for true, useful, accurate 5-shot speed from a normal belt-height holster, I have never seen or heard of anyone who could beat good old Ed McGivern from the 1930s. Ed's book, "Fast and Fancy Revolver Shooting" is probably THE classic text in this field. He could put 5 shots into a playing card in less than 1 second, including the draw from his belt holster....and he wasn't using bird shot cartridges like these late-day entertainers.

BTW, just for information, Ed was an S&W user, not a Colt afficianado for fast revolver work.

Who would you rather have backing you up, Bob here or Jerry M? r in w.

AC,

Bob Munden cut playing cards in half while they are still in mid-air. With a borrowed .45 single-action.

George

http://youtu.be/oGlhP6y_Dl8

Lassiter---26 shots in 20 seconds with 4 different guns and loading 6 shells in the shotgun to boot.
The fast draw exhibitions he puts on at some of the SASS meets are unbelieveable.

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:
AC,

Bob Munden cut playing cards in half while they are still in mid-air. With a borrowed .45 single-action.

George

That's impressive George. I was not saying that Ed McGivern would be the fastest in the world these days.

I was more intending to share my disdain for the single action exhibition shooters who do not wait for a signal to begin their draw (and thus don't have to have fast reaction times, as the timing doesn't start until their reaction is already in progress), and who wear totally impractical rigs which do not secure their guns enough to perform any normal field activities without danger of spilling them onto the ground.

And, of course, they commonly shoot at balloons up close...with what, on close examination often prove to be shot cartridges.

Many times their gun muzzles do not really come to a point of aim at all, but the guns are really just pulled/rocked back onto the rear of the very rigid holster, allowing the muzzle to barely clear...the shot pattern then hits the balloon all right, whereas a bullet seldom would. These are the guys one normally sees re-inserting the gun into the holster as quickly as they "drew" it. that's easy enough, as the gun never really leaves the holster completely anyway, and the holster is so stiff and lacking in fit to the gun that it is more like just forceffully dropping it into a bucket. It does though help create the optical illusion of great speed and dexterity.

Some of those guys even have the triggers and/or hammers modified or tied back so they don't even have to pull the trigger...they pull the gun from the holster partly by the act of thumb-cocking and in effect are using a "slip-hammer" where as the hammer comes back the thumb slips off of it and the weapon fires without the trigger needing to be pulled. That is a technique Elmer Keith described early on, and he had several pistols modified to shoot that way.

Anyway, there is a substantial difference between "entertainment" speed such as the German video shows, and real, useful speed such as the cowboy 4-gun shooters like Lassiter demonstrate.

At least that is my opinion.

(There are, BTW, some folks shooting 4-gun matches who use pump shotguns, where reloads are mandatory, and who are MUCH faster than Lassiter can be with his lever shotgun. I don't know where to find videos of them, but I have watched them in person and they use a special two-handed method of holding the shells between their fingers and pumping the action which is amazing. Prhaps someone here can find a video and post a link?)

My recollection is that Ed McGivern and Bill Jordan (who hunted with my PH in Zambia the year before I did) both had exceptionally large hands.

That helped them handle double action revolvers with multiple shots at speed. Jordan was not only a real lawman, but a pretty fast trick shooter too and appeared on TV several times.

Double action seems much more difficult to me.

quote:

For two shots, there are lots of folks who are amazingly quick with their impractical for field use handgun quick-draw rigs. I knew a local telephone repairman in Hollister, California who was every bit as quick as the fellow in this German video, back in 1960.

But, for true, useful, accurate 5-shot speed from a normal belt-height holster, I have never seen or heard of anyone who could beat good old Ed McGivern from the 1930s. Ed's book, "Fast and Fancy Revolver Shooting" is probably THE classic text in this field. He could put 5 shots into a playing card in less than 1 second, including the draw from his belt holster....and he wasn't using bird shot cartridges like these late-day entertainers.

BTW, just for information, Ed was an S&W user, not a Colt afficianado for fast revolver work.

I maybe wrong AC but from the articles I read, I believe McGivern's record was 2/5ths. of a second. Even if it took longer that that, it was still under a second and pretty damn amazing.

during the late 50's and early 60's there were severalt fast draw clubs and national competitions around the country.
the sands hotel/casino in las vegas even had a national event [it was a walk up where the contestant would walk down the aisle and the buzzer was set-off to indicate the draw] in 60-61.
many of the t.v. western stars of the day, including clint eastwood, entered the event.
[where he didn't even pass the first round]
they had even invented robots to shoot against/at,at the buzzer [some police departments started using this as a training tool]
there were much faster times posted during this national "fad".
but speed is speed.
and hit's are what count

I knew Bill Jordan + yes,his hands were large,or lengthy fingers perhaps,when you shook hands his would wrap around your hand.He always gave credit to Ed Mcgivern as being faster;possibly true but Bill was always humble.His favorite trick that I recall was placing a ping pong ball in the web of his hand above the holster with a model 19,draw,fire (accurately)before the ping pong ball would fall into the holster.

I've met long, tall, Bill too. He was a real gentleman, and well known to be fast as lightning drawing from his own design of duty holster worn on a normal pants belt, at normal belt height.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

quote:

For two shots, there are lots of folks who are amazingly quick with their impractical for field use handgun quick-draw rigs. I knew a local telephone repairman in Hollister, California who was every bit as quick as the fellow in this German video, back in 1960.

But, for true, useful, accurate 5-shot speed from a normal belt-height holster, I have never seen or heard of anyone who could beat good old Ed McGivern from the 1930s. Ed's book, "Fast and Fancy Revolver Shooting" is probably THE classic text in this field. He could put 5 shots into a playing card in less than 1 second, including the draw from his belt holster....and he wasn't using bird shot cartridges like these late-day entertainers.

BTW, just for information, Ed was an S&W user, not a Colt afficianado for fast revolver work.

I maybe wrong AC but from the articles I read, I believe McGivern's record was 2/5ths. of a second. Even if it took longer that that, it was still under a second and pretty damn amazing.

You are correct. I started to post that time, but when we moved here one of the movers "liberated" my first edition signed copy of Ed's book, so I couldn't confirm my memory of his time. So, I just posted it as being under a second, because I knew for sure that was true.

They also got many other of my good books, including "Wanderings of an Elephant Hunter", "The Rifleman's Rifle" and a bunch more.

BTW, my books all have my name impressed on the front fly leaf, on pages near 49, 99, 149, 199, and so on. So if you ever run across books imprinted that way with the first name of "Lloyd" and a last name in a circle, they are from my stolen books. I have never sold or given away ANY gun books from my personal library.