Hi from down in Texas to all you BPCR guys. I have my new C Sharps built 1874 in 45-70 and it is a quality rifle. I had a 1885 in my mind but handling the Sharps changed that. I also had a 45-90 in mind but everybody recommended the 45-70 and as it was I had 45-70 equipment and cases so that seemed the thing to do.

I have loading experience in the 45-70 and others. Prior to going up to Big Timber and ordering the Sharps, I also had a Lyman 330 Gould mould that was unused at the time, as I had purchased it to load some for the 45-70 lever actions and just never got around to using it.

In between the ordering date and the rifles arrival a couple of weeks ago , I got set up to cast with a variety of equipment and processes. I cast up some 330s with 20-1 alloy that were nice in weight and size. I loaded those up with various wads and powder loads of Goex OE after the arrival of the Sharps and it shot them very well in its first outing. It actually rang up the X on the third shot at 100 yards.

I had also ordered the Saeco 645 mould which is 480 grain semi pointed mould and I cast these up yesterday. The 500 grain bullets are more recommended for the 1 - 18 twist of the Sharps by Sharps as well as most shooters. These are long bullets at 1.250 inches and my mold dropped them at plus or minus one grain of 490 grains. I was stoked - right up until I looked at loading these into the Winchester 45-70 cases I have. As well as it shot the 330s ( 338 from my mould) I was looking forward to the 500 grain bullets.

My rifle does not have the deep throated chamber of many Sharps. From what I understand, the newer rifles including many of the Shiloh's have a shorter chamber too. About 2.580 inches is about all the COAL that my 1874 will chamber and close the breech on and that is tight. I had loaded the 330s to 2.550 inches with no difficulty in chambering. That also happened to be right at the top driving band with the Gould bullet so all was well.

But with these long bullets the grease grooves and the driving band are going to be in the case to load even out to 2.570 inches.

I set up and checked my cases and dropped 65 grains (by weight) and 70 grains of Goex OE and ran the charged cases in the compression die to see how things would turn out. That lower part of the case is packed tight. And that bullet is about 0.775 in the case. I had expanded a bit more so I broke out the crime die and kissed it with the crimp.

While it all looks good I am bothered some by the driving bands being in the case. What is your thoughts on this?

And if you have any suggestions on expanding and crimping I would appreciate those too. I like a bit of neck tension and it seemed to work on the smaller Gould bullets - but these big 500s having me questioning myself.

I knew I should have gotten the 45-90 and this may be one yet. I guess I could load this one with 5744 too - but I would be kicked out of the Sharps club lol.

Thank you for your inputs.

And even more problems.

I am going to have to have my Redding seating die modified.

I can use the micrometer seater to seat the 330 grain bullets. But not these big 500s. With the die down and the stem set up the travel in the die is such that the die is trying to crimp the cartridge before I can get to the COAL and seating depth required for the 490 grain built.

I am going to send the die back to Redding and have the crimp ring turned out of it is the only way I see unless y'all have figured other solutions to this problem.

I have a 1875 C Sharps in 45-70. My method is to determine the max length the bullet can be seated to chamber in the rifle. I'm using a 520 grain bullet with 60 grains of black powder resulting in about .10 inch compression. This load is plenty adequate and doesn't require the heavy compression that pulverizes the powder as in a 65 grain load. The bullet ends up being lightly crimped on the front driving band. This particular bullet is cast from a BAC money mold with a reduced first band that allows it to be seated further out.

Should have got the 45-90 (actually not a 90, that was strictly a Winchester Express round, a Sharps 2.4 inches). Because then you can use the 480/500s and end up wirth a 45-70-500.
Extending the throat; not always a good idea, but guys do it.
Or re-chamber to 2.4 inch.
Ask me first.

I wil probably end up rechambering it to a 2.4 at a later time. But as I have only had the rifle a couple of weeks Id like to burn some powder and lead first.

But as it is now I just don't have enough chamber length to seat these 500s out longer. I am going to end up with the same amount of bullet in the case at 60 or at 65 grains of Goex. The only thing changing is the amount of compression as I am seating them out as long as I can at 2.570 inches.

I am going to call Redding the first of the week and see what they can do. Or I will be taking a trip to the machine shop.

a standard and effective load that almost always works is a 500gr bullet (SAECO 881, or the slightly heavier Lyman version) cast of 30:1 lead - tin alloy (20:1 ok too). Shoot as cast or sized to 0.459". 70 grs ffg Goex or Swiss 1.5 compressed to allow seating the bullet to reach or cover the front rotating band. Use a card over powder wad and a wax paper wad under the bullet. Lube the bullet with a proper black powder lubricant.

The compression is rather heavy but original cartridges were also heavily compressed so the propellant is a near solid and cohesive whole.

I use this load in my 1884 Springfield and it is accurate. Works very well in a Friend's Shiloh Sharps.

To properly load BP cartridge you need a sizing die that doesn't overwork the case, an expander die with the proper two diameter expander button made for your size bullet, a compression die for the powder, and a seater with the proper stem for your bullet nose. If you want to crimp it's best to use yet another die. I run a mixture in my 45-70 with a Lee sizer, an RCBS die body with a Buffalo Arms expander, an RCBS die body with a Buffalo Arms compression plug, and a Lee seater. It's another whole set of different mix for my 45-90.

Tex, are you using a drop tube to settle the powder before compression?

I am using a drop tube.

And I have at least 4 expanders and the proper sizing die and a BACO compression die. Actually 2 of those as well as I am going to set them up when I cinch the loads I want to use.

I am not explaining the problem(s) very well.

I am not having problems with powder, or compression, or with expanding. My initial 70 grain loads with the Gould 330 bullets that I cast and seated were right on the target accurate - expect for the day I shot at the range the winds were 20-30 mph. So I didn't pick the best range day. But I was ready to blow some smoke.

My primary problem is that I am COAL limited by the rifle chamber length in 45-70 (2.1).

I can only load out to about 2.570 inches and close the breech. With this long 500 grain bullet that puts 0.775 inches of that inside the Winchester case. Which puts all the grease grooves and the driving band fully inside the case.

Thats a lot in my mind, and certainly before now I have never seated any bullet of any type at anything close to that inside the the case. But yes with that bullet in 65 or 70 grain loadings, I am having to put some real compression on the GOEX OE to load the 500 in the case.

Seating that deep is not a job (with some neck tension) for the Redding Competition Mic seating die. So I am using a standard Redding seater. But it is screwed down deep into either of my presses ( Redding Big Boss 2 or a Redding UltraMag) and therefore with the case deep in the die it getting in to the crimp ring of the seater de.

Tomorrow I am going to see what Redding can do to help improve this.

try the Lee seater. Seems to work for me loading for the Trapdoor with the SAECO 881 bullet which is a pretty good copy of the 500gr military version. It is loaded to cover the last band and the seater stem works ok.

Seems like you need a throating reamer if you insist on using 65-70 grains behind that bullet. I use 75 grains with the Lyman 535 in my 2.4"
Crushing the powder column causes all kinds of problems.

https://4drentals.com/products...er-rentals/throater/

I am going to look in to that as well. Thanks.

If I loaded no powder in the case I would still have the same problem and COAL with these 500s.

Hope you haven't done anything like throat that rifle or send the seater die back to Redding. You don't need to do either.

Back off the seater die 1 turn, and the crimp feature doesn't come into play.

Seat the bullet so it just touches the lands and load enough black powder with a 0.030" veg or poly wad to get 0.060" compression. Depending on the bullet, you will probably have 62-64 grains of powder, if you use a drop tube.

Come to Columbus tomorrow. Google YCSA for directions. There will be 25 people that can help you get the right start.

Clarence