Good Morning everyone-

Just posted this in the double rifle section-
but thought there might be some interest here also. There are a few more pics in the double rifle section

I recently acquired this item at the local fun show:







I was told from the seller that it is possibly a 50-95 Express but he had been shooting .50-70 and he had shot close to a hundred rounds of 50-70 with no problem and was getting 2-4" groups at 50 yds.

The action locks up fairly tight, hammers and locks appear to work fine as well as triggers!

Barrels do have pitting but rib and barrels show no sign of separation or weakness. Wood is in great shape.

From what I can tell, the barrels have Birmingham proof marks from between (1875-1887?).

The barrel and one side plate is marked G.S. Abbey, Chicago.

Any ideas about the possible history or what I might have here is greatly appreciated!

50-70 and 50-95 are two very different cases. I would speculate that it is a 50-70 or 50-90 (2 1/2" Sharps) cartridge. The 50-95 is a fat(ter) case developed for the 1876 Winchester Lever rifle.

Idaho Sharpshooter
Thanks for the response!

I think you are correct. I stuck a 50-90 cartridge in each chamber and marked the case to see how deep the chambers were.

Both came out around 1.83". Long enough for the 50-70 as I was originally told!

I got 20 loaded rds from Old Western Scrounger and the rounds fit really good.
Rims are exact match and bullet dia seems about right.

Tomorrow I'm going to the range and see how it goes!

What a great find. Always liked the .50-70. Have one on a Carl Gustav rolling block action I need to have blued. If you can find a bullet and load that consistently shoots into 2 inches at 50 yards, you have a great tool there. Be advised this cartridge is very twist-sensitive when choosing a bullet mold. The original twist rate in the trapdoor Springfield was 1:42 inches, and if your double has a slower twist like this, it likely will not want to be accurate with any bullet much beyond 450 grains. If it has a faster twist rate (my Green Mountain barrel is 1:26), you can shoot up to 650-grain or heavier bullets, but again, these may not regulate in your rifle if it was built with 450-grain bullets in mind.

Bill-
Thanks for the advice, I'll check the twist, but it looks very slow.

Rifling has wide flat lands and very narrow grooves. Six lands and six grooves.

the 50-70 is a really neat cast bullet cartridge. In the past I owned a couple of Allin Conversion Trapdoors in the cartridge.

If you check with www.buffaloarms.com in northern Idaho you will find everything you need to be shooting it.

You were going shooting a week or so ago, how does she shoot, other than a tremendous amount of fun.


Rich

Rich-
Yes I took it out last week with my son- We had a blast!

Set up pie plate at 20 yds and all shots in the plate. I know that's not great accuracy, but I was shooting basic ammo from Old Western Scrounger-

Had some key holing so may need to reload to correct velocity / bullet diameter.

Rear trigger is very very light, wondering if this is normal.

Had a nice polite shove for the recoil - was more than I expected given how heavy the rifle is.

I did chamber castings yesterday and will post pictures later - The barrels have a "ratchet" rifling, with 7 lands - never seen that before!

Barrel twist looks really slow, maybe around 1:40 or there about.

Original Springfield 1866/68/1870 twist rate was one in 42, and Sharps was even slower. Bullets much longer than about an inch might not stabilize.
A 1 in 40 twist rate was a fast twist in the mid 1800s.

dpcd,
Any thoughts about bullet weight and velocity for the slow twist.
Thanks

Yes, if it is really a 50-70, there is only one bullet; 450 grains, and only one propellant; black powder; probably FG; FFG at the finest. Some sort of wad was used; either beeswax; I use SPG now, with a card wad. 70 grains will give 1150-1200 fps. I would not use smokeless powder in this rifle. Some people would. Shoot it with what was meant for it.

dpcd,
Thanks for the advice.
I am worried about using smokeless for black powder and over stressing the 140 yr old double barrels!

That is why I recommend BP only, and soft lead bullets. Hard ones will lead the bore, contrary to what might seem intuitive.

Here's a picture of today's target at 25 yds.

Shots 1,3,5 are right barrel

Shots 2,4,6 are left barrel

Shot 6 definite key hole!

Shots 2,4 starting to turn sideways.

Shots 5,6 I was holding slightly to the right and messed up the group!

Two things come to mind that you need to be aware of. Those firing pins are free floating with just a threaded retainer bushing to keep them from blowing back at your face. This would indicate that you should never use nitro for black loads in this gun. There's too much chance of having a pin blow back at you. I had a friend who lost part of the bridge of his nose that way!

The second thing is that you mentioned that the rear trigger was very light. That condition should be looked at immediately before you do any more shooting with it. Most people pull the front trigger first, firing the right barrel first. This is the normal way most shoot one of these doubles, and if the rear trigger is set too light it might indicate that the sear nose is worn or that the notch in the tumbler is worn or partially broken out.

This situation can result in the gun doubling and on an older gun such as this one, you could break the stock or get hurt in the process. While you're at it, you might want to check out the condition of the wood at the head of the stock. Older guns that have been well oiled over the years, tend to get oil soaked into the head of the stock.

If the wood is weak and punky you will want to have that worked on by someone who really knows what they are doing. Sometimes they can be brought back and hardened up to the point that they are usable again, but they must be done correctly. Good luck with your new gun but do check it out thoroughly before shooting again.
Bob

very nice! Thanks for sharing!