quote:

Originally posted by mete:
I hate to add facts to this but the Borgia family was Spanish not Italian !!
They later went back to Spain .

Dang, I had to look up how to spell her name:

http://www.ask.com/wiki/Lucrez...rgia?o=2800&qsrc=999

"Lucrezia Borgia was born at Subiaco, near Rome. Her mother was Vannozza dei Cattanei, one of the mistresses of Lucrezia's father, Rodrigo Borgia (Pope Alexander VI)."

Reckon Buffalo Bill spelled like me?



...[wikipedia/commons/8/8f/Lucretia_Borgia_Pinturicchio.jpg

Ah ha!

Properties of picture above spells it "Lucretia" too. What a relief.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Borgia

Here's the whole story ! From Valencia Spain onward !

damn, Lee Hawes in Kansas is sold out for 2014 and 2015 :-(

Jon, I thought he had actually left the business.

Oh, even worse! :-(

quote:

Originally posted by mete:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Borgia

Here's the whole story ! From Valencia Spain onward !

Spanish-Italian girl born and raised in Italy = Italian girl.
Just like Mexican-American born in USA = American, close enough for me.

Ah, the good old days when popes had mistresses, and fathered bastard children!

And the Borgia (alternate spelling "Borja") coats of arms all feature a bovine chewing its cud. And I thought the expletive "holy cow!"
was a Hindu thing.
Now we know it is actually a Spanish-Italian thing,
and what the folk called the pope's mistress back then,
since the pope saw himself as a holy bull:



Lucretia Borgia is a pretty good name for the deadly 50-70 Trapdoor of Buffalo Bill. He was quite the comedian,
since the deadly Italian bastard daughter of Pope Alexander VI apparently knew how to use arsenic.

"The Borgia (Italian pronunciation: [ˈbɔrdʒa], Spanish: Borja [ˈborxa], Valencian: Borja [ˈbɔɾdʒa]) family became prominent during the Renaissance in Italy. They were from Valencia, the name coming from the family fief of Borja, then in the kingdom of Aragon, in Spain.

The Borgias became prominent in ecclesiastical and political affairs in the 15th and 16th centuries, producing two popes, Alfons de Borja who ruled as Pope Callixtus III during 1455–1458 and Rodrigo Lanzol Borgia, as Pope Alexander VI, during 1492–1503.

Especially during the reign of Alexander VI, they were suspected of many crimes, including adultery, simony, theft, bribery[citation needed] and murder (especially murder by arsenic poisoning).[1] Because of their grasping for power, they made enemies of the Medici, the Sforza, and the Dominican friar Savonarola, among others. They were also patrons of the arts who contributed to the Renaissance."

Though I am partial to The Sand Hills of Nebraska,
this extreme southern Colorado operation Biebs posted looks interesting:

http://www.thbison.com/prices.shtml

But the info is from 2009 ... are they still a going concern?

http://www.bpcr.net/buffalo_hunting.htm

A page of links to be investigated: Dead or alive links?

RIP, that looks like the bible of BPCR Buffalo hunting! I'll start checking them out.

RIP: five or six years ago I was in the Thornton, CO, Sportsman's Warehouse and a guy at the gun counter spoke of a bison operation up near Fairplay. Said the meat was particularly good because of the quality of the grass.
These smaller operations are out there if you can find them. I sense a lot of turnover in the bison ranching business. Looking at back issues of the SPG News, there were multiple ads for bison hunts 6-7 years ago. Current issues has just one -- Deep Creek Ranch in Choteau, Montana. The ranch is owned by none other than David Letterman.

I always wanted to be a guest of Letterman! :-)

I know this is probably out of the question ,but i would like to hunt a Bison off horse back, with a 58 cal Zouave carbine or 54 cal Hawken rifle.But i doubt they would let you do that

Tank, there was an outfitter offering horse hunts for Bison, and may be others as well, but I don't imagine they'd let you shoot off the horse, if that's what you meant.

Unfortunately, bison hunting opportunities don't seem to be as numerous as they were 10 or so years ago.

In 2000 I shot a yearling cow at Ted Turner's Flying D ranch in Bozeman, Montana. It was not, in any way, "fair chase." The bison were sorted by size and herded in a pasture right off the road. They milled around like dairy cows and didn't seem to have a clue or care in the world. This was simply a 'harvest' (I hate that term..) but in all fairness it was advertised as such. Not much sport, but a lot of great meat for only $750.00. The only issue was that the guide insisted on a head shot. I used a .338 Win Mag. I don't normally take head shots and shouldn't have done it then.

The next year I went Turner's Sandhills ranch near Valentine, Nebraska. This time the 'pasture' was a single fenced in enclosure of over 12,000 acres. The electric fence surrounding the pasture had wiring that looked like it came from a utility substation. The fence looked strong enough to stop a tank and must have cost a fortune to install and maintain.

"Sandhills" was a perfect name for the ranch. It was a real challenge to find the bison in the hilly country because they were truly wild. My .45-70 Sharps sealed the deal with one shot. The cost was also $750 for a yearling cow, a bargain to say the least.

I've done many cow elk hunts at Turner's Vermejo Park Ranch near Raton, NM. The bison herd at VPR seems to be get bigger every year. I don't know if they offer hunts at this time or not.

Don't laugh about the "yearling cow." The hunts (or harvest/hunt) were a great deal for the price at the time. The meat was EXCELLENT - very tender - and there was plenty of it. How much meat is on a yearling bison? The hanging weight of the carcasses (minus guts, hide, head and legs) was over 400 lbs. For comparasion, the average hanging weight of a mature cow elk is 220 - 240 lbs. A young bison yields almost twice as much meat as an adult elk. It would be difficult to use all of the meat from a 'trophy' bull unless you have a large freezer and a large family that eats a lot of meat.

I had the hides tanned hair-on. The strange thing is you'd think the fur was coarse but it's as smooth as petting a kitten. A buffalo robe makes a wonderful blanket. During the winter I keep my bedroom at 60 degrees.

If you enjoy hunting and history, I strongly recommend a bison hunt. To be honest, even under the best of conditions, it's not really a great hunting challenge. But then bison hunting was never about "sport." Both the red man and the white man hunted bison for entirely practical (although very different) reasons.

Be a part of history. Do it now - you can borrow money but you can't borrow time.

Elk, great explanation...thanks.