I need a new hobby like I need a hole in the head, but here's the plan:

Got a benchtop sander (4x36"+6" disk) and a 6" grinder...
Got a few 'spare' circular sawblades from 7.5" to 12"

Since the sawblades are already temperted, I was thinking about cutting and shaping a few blades from them, just to see if I can. My questions:

What is the steel usually used for these sawblades?
Will a plasma torch detemper them too deeply if I cut the rough shape with it? Is the limit of 'blue' metal a good indicator of the detempered area?
Should I just anneal the blades and suck up the cost to have them re-heat treated afterwards?
Will a cobalt drill bit drill these sawblades or is carbide required?
Should I just suck up the cost of a few pieces of barstock and forget the free sawblades?

It's more likely to be L-6 than anything else but that's still a guess.Plasma torch will detemper at least to the 'blue line'.For hardened material you will need carbide bits.Much easier to get a known steel, annealed and go from there .Go to one of the knife forums such as www.bladeforums.com to find lots of info.

Saw blades can be almost anything. The old large saw mill blades were sometimes L6. Modern large bandsaw blades are almost always 15N20 these days ... Udeholm has about 80 % of that market. The newer circular saw blades with carbide insert teeth are usually some sort of 10xx or chrom moly material that just holds the cutters.

Small diameter blades are simply unpredicatable.

There are really two choices if you have no tools for forming workable billet from larger stuff ...

1) Buy some O1 from MSC or
2) Some L6 from Admiral Steel

L6 is pretty cheap and makes a fine blade.

If you had heavier tools for forming billets, drops from the manufacture of truck springs are usually 5120 and it makes very good knives when properly heat treated. (We use hydraulic presses and power hammers for that kind of work. Making 1/2" x 4" into 3/16" x 1 1/2" is major work.)

HT is the heart of the blade. You want something that will hold an edge without being so brittle it tends to self destruct or chip when stressed.


Neither of these materials is water hardening. For an experiment try 1/2 ATF and 1/2 10 to 30 wt motor oil as a quench. Heat until the material is non-magnetic (dull red hot!), then dunk vertically into the quench bath. Move up and down until the smoke clears. Let cool to room temp. Then heat the back of the blade with a torch until the straw colored line just crosses the edge. This is about the best you can do by hand, and it really isn't all that easy.

We use computer controlled salt pots to achieve bainite crystal structure with L6 for Bowies. These blades come it at about RC 55, and can be bend to 90 degrees or more without breaking or chipping the edge ... and return almost straight. We also have real harness testing equipment and have found that is the only way to assure consistency over time. The eye-ball techniques aren't very consistent.

Have fun ... and I warn you, this is an addiction. You have been warned!

Thanks guys. My whole goal was to try a couple without a major investment, but I didn't want to put the work into them and have 'throwaways' at then end of it all!

I've been lurking on some of the knife forums for a while...just haven't been posting. I'll get there, I'm sure...but for now AR is the only forum I visit regularly.

My gut says I should order some annealed material, like from these guys I found:

Texas knifemakers supply

and send the blade back for heat treating. I don't trust myself to 'eyeball' it, and my oxy/act rig needs new hoses...more expense, not to mention that I don't have too much room in the garage for a forge/salt pot/anvil, etc. I gotta 'nuther baby coming in October, so I need something I can hide in the garage with to stay away from moody momma, without spending too much $$! The air tools, sander, and grinder fit the bill...she won't come near me when the power tools are humming!

Addictions...well, already got guns, a 20.5' fishing boat, a house, and a family...what's one more addiction!?!?

TKS is a good place, but as you live in Texas you may have to pay shipping and Texas tax. Here is another:

Admiral Steel

I think K&G also sells blade materials as does Sheffield's Knife Supply.

Have fun!

tool and die or crucible have the best prices on steel I have found. Buy 0-1 it is cheap, works well for a blade and you can heat treat it at home. Grind glade up, read the forums, dont listen to 90% of what you read, practice and practice more.

Custom Knife Forums
Usuall suspects
Blade Forums

There is a Texas Knife Makers Assoc. you can probably get help locally.

Make your own grinder - Variable speed please.

I listen to everyone, but I sort out what I want to believe. If you are just making a couple knives. TKS will work fine for you, I've used them quite a bit and they have always been good. Don't worry about making your first couple of knives perfect, the won't be! You will be happy with them at first, but after you make quite a few more, you won't believe that you ever thought they were good.

Loboga is right. Remember that there is a knife in that piece of steel ... it just may be a little smaller than you envisioned at first. They do grow over time, but don't be too hard on yourself with the first few.

Starting with 3/16 x 1 1/2" or 1 1/4" flat stock allows many designs to be realized. Again L6 from Admiral is cheap. O1 is also available cheap as surface ground material. MSC often has it on sale as 1/8" ground stock. Carbon steel blades will rust like mad unless protected. Johnson's Floor wax or bee's wax is as good as any high dollar protectant we've found.

Some folks do start with a disk grinder and get enough taste to go further. (We use variable speed disk grinders for smoothing flats and edges. K&G sells a very nice 8 or 9" disk.)

See our web site for belt grinder plans ... lots of folks have build them and they do work. A variable speed grinder is ideal. We run two 1 1/2 hp, one two hp and one 5 hp belt grinders.

Scale woods are often available on eBay at very reasonable prices. Micarta holds up better in the field.

Good luck, be patient, and have fun.

quote:

Originally posted by mstarling:
and one 5 hp belt grinders.

That must be the Ferrari of grinders!!

G10 or Micarta is my favorite handle - not as pretty as wood but much more useful IMHO.

The stabilized wood scales out of canada on ebay are a great deal if you dont get in a bidding war.. I have bought 8-10 sets from them and have been very happy with them..

Good Luck, John

John,

The 5 hp is used for roughing in blades ... does it REAL fast ... very hard to drag it down Has plenty of torque.

The two HP variable is the nicest one (in my opinion). Was built by John LeBlanc and is a beauty, but cost WAY too much.

I personally prefer micarta for working blades ... but it is hard to deny the attraction of a pretty piece of wood:

I'm thinking that I might be too much of a perfectionist (had that problem all my life) to start with something really nice...so a simple working knife it will be. I am torn though between a smaller kitchen type knife (always short a paring knife when I want one) and a skinning/field dressing knife.

How much easier/harder is a smaller knife, like a 2-3" paring knife?

I've got a bunch of old hardwood chair armrests from the Masonic Lodge my grandfather attended before it shut down...looks like oak...'bout 8" long by 2" wide by 1.5" thick averaging the curves. I made a few wood letter openers out of it in my youth...decent grain, no figure, but ROCK solid! I might rip a few pieces for cheap handles...that can be upgraded later.

Tired of the inane questions yet?

CDH,

Thin blades are more difficult than slightly thicker blades because they are flexible, tend to move away from the grinding surface, and seem to get hot quickly. You might try wearing gloves when you start grinding ... and you might try using a push stick. (I had doubts about both until I saw Engnath do it! I take my time during the grinding step, so don't need the push stick as much.) Dunk the blade in water often and your control will be better.

3/32 is about as thin as can be hand ground on both sides into real blades (by a mere mortal) without significant support.

For polishing the blade, take a look through the Engnath reading material:

http://www.engnath.com

Bob sold preground blades for folks to finish, and made about 100,000 blades during his life. Was known affectionately as "Bob Grind." Probably got more folks into or interested in knifemaking than anyone before or since. He was a hellova guy. Many of us miss him very much.

His catalog was a manual on knife finishing. There are lots of ways to do it. His was progressive and thorough. It worked and still works for a lot of folks.

To hand finish thin blades they should be supported else they'll bend pretty badly. Put a 1 x 2" piece of hard wood like Ash or Hickory (longer than the blade) into the vise, and clamp the blade handle down flat to it.

The hardwood you have will work just fine. (Probably should not plan to soak the knives in dish water when done.) Do save some of it for later though as it will make great material for fancier leather covered handles.

Due to cost, carbon steel is still the best place to start, but stainless is great in the kitchen and possible for you if TKS is going to do the HT.

Take a look at some of Bob's designs too ... will help you start to visualize the blade that lives in that piece of steel.

Have fun.

Mike

[/QUOTE]

Beautiful knife, shows me how far I have to go on my own.

I have a single speed (1750) copy of the Bader right now. It was priced right - read horse trade - works well and will be a 1.5 hp variable as soon as the controller gets here.

If I were to start over again I would build my own from 3/8 plate and a 1.25 inch piece of square stock with a 2 hp VSD motor. If you have any intrest in making knifes get what you want to start with it is cheaper in the long run, failing that they are easier to sell.

CDH - my first knife is still my favorite, probably because I got more than I expected. Now I expect perfection and with out using a jig that is still hard for me to achieve.

My advice is to be more flexible than me and do not get frustrated when the knife does not turn out perfect, and when you figure out how to do that PLEASE let me know how you did so

John

PS - nice to see some movement in the knife forum.

CDH,

Don't use oak for a handle, you'll be unhappy with it in the coming years. PM me with your addy and I'll send you a block or 3 of some walnut& cherry, maybe even a hunk of osage orange if you really want a challenge!

For anyone who might be interested, we have a local sawmill who cuts and kiln dries bois d'arc (osage orange). That is pretty rare as far as I can tell. Prices are very reasonable, but most of the material is fairly straight grained. Email me and I'll give you more details. And, no, I'm not selling it, nor do I want to ship it. It is quite heavy. I hand carried a couple of long sticks to South Africa a couple of years back as a favor (and boy was that bottle of cognac I got in return good) and that's all the bois d'arc deliveries I ever intend to make. I pick up river/creek washed chunks of it on my place all the time, but it tends to have cracks. Great wood and nearly indestructible. Unless it is mineralized out, it is bright yellow then oxidizes to a sort of deep slightly reddish brown color.

I don't know if its still available for purchase yet, but a few years ago I purchased a video put out by a gentleman by the name of Bob Loveless, and also purchased a couple of books about his knives. The video is really outstanding. Goes into all of the steps in grinding and making a knife. Well worth the price I paid for it, as are the books.