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| One of Us |
This is a big area to cover. Something is begining to become apparent to me in hunting black tail deer. I killed a really nice buck last weekend with a 25-06. Used a 120gr Remington bullet at about 3100 fps. The deer was facing me, 100 yards. I shot him at the base of the neck, the bullet exited at about the last rib. It was a lung shot. He required finishing shots. When I got there he tried to run away. It was about a 180# live weight deer. It seems to me that shot should have flattened him. I have killed deer with .243, 250 Savage, 257 Roberts, 25-06, 308, 30-06, 45-70, and a 50 cal flintlock. Maybe 50 bucks in all. I have observed some trends: The under 30 caliber stuff needs to be placed very precisely. A shot that is even a little off will result in a chase. The 30 and over calibers seem to put them down right there. Too much gun seems to help with poor shot placement. Velocities over about 2800 fps cause bullets to disenegrate, not penetrate well, and, in the process, destroy huge amounts of meat. It has been my observation that 165 grain and larger bullets at less then 2800 fps work better overall and do not destroy as much meat in the process. The most spectacular performance was the 50 cal pure lead ball. Hmmmmm. My intuition is begining ot tell me to use my 308 with non premium bullets of 165 to 180 grains. The longer shots where flat trajectory matters often result in poor shot placement so, the fast flat shooters don't seem to gain much in actual killing percentages. Keep in mind I am hunting in the West. We do drives, and walk and search. It is thick coastal country. Not like antelope hunting. We rarely sneak up on a buck that does not see us first. Shots need to be taken quickly. There is generally no time to ponder the shot and set up a bench rest sold shooting position. It is not like stand or blind shooting where you have lots of time to get perfect shots. What say you? | ||
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Shot placement is CRITICAL, no matter what you're shooting. A poorly placed shot from a super MAG with a premium bullet is MUCH WORSE than a well-placed shot into the vitals from a 308 shooting traditional hunting bullets at modest velocities. A gut or rump-shot animal will run and is potentially lost, especially in heavy timber or brush. I don't find animals as easy to track and as the "stories" indicate. I've lost game because of poor shot placement -especially when shot too high into the dorsal neck and thorax muscles lying above the spinal column. | |||
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http://www.seahook.com/bestbullet.jpg Just found this chart, great stuff. It seems to agree with my observations. A plain jane Remington round nose seems close to optimal, at least from a terminal performance standpoint. | |||
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Scota, I hunt NW Wisconsin every year and often are presented with the sorts of situations you describe. I haven't shot as many deer as you have--probably 20 or so. My rig is a .270, usually 130 gr. I agree that in the 3000+ range penetration can be compromised, even on an agverage size deer. The best penetration I've gotten, without doubt, was a Texas heart shot (intended for the base of the neck). This was at about 50 yards shooting the new Remington bonded core-lockt (140 gr.). Impact velocity was at least 2800 (probably 2900) fps. The bullet spit the upper half of the pelvis, ran just under the spine and ended up somewhere in front of the diaphram--I never found the bullet, but the heart lungs were awash in blood, as much had it been a typical broadside shot! The deer was not large--probably 150 lbs. That animal died within 30 seconds; penetration was in the neighborhood of 24". If only the bullet shot a little better in my rifle, I'd be hard pressed to choose something else! friar Our liberties we prize, and our rights we will maintain. | |||
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I too have been finding myself shooting less big game with fast and easly expanding bullets the last few years. I am really likeing the results of my whelen improved with 225gr bullets @2830fps. Seems to be almost magic, and penatration can be measured in how many inches of trees that are now down past the target. The 358 win is another winner with 225's @ 2400fps. Big lead, moderate expansion, moderate impact speeds all equal meat in the freezer. In North Dakota, winter sucks | |||
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I've said this before (on other forums). I never saw a deer run after it was shot until I stopped using my .308 and started using .300 Win Mags. When I was a kid up through my early 20's, the standby combo in my family was the .308 with 180 gr. Winchester Silvertip factory loads. I believe they ran around 2600 and would put deer dick in the dirt so fast your eyes watered. I have since "graduated" (or regressed) to the .300 Win. Mags and the 7-STW. I have seen more than enough whitetails hit in lethal areas take off with nary an inkling of being hit. Sure, they expire. But usually not on the spot. And if they do drop in their tracks, it's due to a big bone hit that surely trashed half the deer. I believe that the big belted dudes take most of their energy on through a whitetail and plant it in the ground behind it somewhere. The more moderate rounds with a decently heavy bullet plant it all in the animal. Founder....the OTPG | |||
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I think the "flattening effect" we see with big, slow-moving bullets is the result of energy transfer. I feel like the longer a bullet is in the body of an animal, the more energy is transferred. Add to that the fact that the majority of deer are shot at less than 100 yards, and we have a lot of deer that run 50 or 60 yards with their engine room destroyed, when they are shot with high velocity rounds from the magnums. My .270s have shot a lot of deer, and I shoot lungs; a 130-grain GS at a MV of 3150 (chronographed...). The deer ALWAYS run; they travel about 50 yards and pile up. My son shoots a 7X57 and 145-grain bullets, running about 2800. His rifle flattens stuff. I chalk up the difference to bullet weight, and a slower velocity, with more energy transfer due to a longer transit time through the animal. | |||
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Completely opposite of my experience. Velocity seems to average faster kills in my experience (on deer & equivalent game) than slow moving bullets. There are no absolutes and no I'm not saying velocity means bang-flop. I'm also not referring to .22 centerfires, more so fast .270s/7mms/30s and even .24s. The only problem is it tends to destroy a lot more meat than I'm willing to lose, so have switched to tough bullets that somewhat offset the effect in my highest velocity rounds. Actually, the slowest killers I have seen is .45 and 50 cal roundballs out of flintlocks. For many years, my group of pals got together and went together for ML season after Christmas in PA. Never, ever was I impressed with the killing power of this combo compared to a high velocity centerfire. I can say the same for shotgun/slugs, but the caveat here is I'm referring to the older Foster style slugs and not the new stuff that came out in the last 5-10 years. -Lou | |||
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I usually like more velocity for the flatter trajectory, since my deer hunts are usually in open country or across canyons. The best combo for dropping on the spot, in my experience, has been a standard 180 gr bullet (Hornady or Speer) in my .30-06. | |||
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I've shot a bunch of deer with everything from a .220 Swift to a doe during the winter special season with a .416 Rigby. My experience is that deer are pretty easy to kill with damn near anything. Occasionally they will run 40-50 yards and fall over, more often they are straight down kills. I do believe as you do that you will get more consistent bullet performance at 2500-2800 fps muzzle velocity, which is why most of the calibers that are noted to kill better than they look on paper such as 7x57, 6.5x55, .30-06, .376 H&H are all in this category. A shot not taken is always a miss | |||
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I have taken deer with: 243(100)gr-- 250(100gr) 270(130gr)-- 7X57(154gr) 30/06(165&180&200gr) 357mag(pistol 158gr) 375 H&H(260&270&300gr) 405WCF(300gr)-44/40(200) 45-70(400&420&500gr) 45-90(500gr)45-110(500gr 50-90(335gr&460) 50cal.ML (300&350gr) All worked fastest kills were of course spine shots, other than that the higher velocity seemed to drop them a LITTLE quicker.Even though I suppose it happens I have never had a lung and/or heart shot deer drop in it's tracks with any caliber nor have I had one run over 75 yards. The slower velocities resulted in much more predictable bullet preformance. The higher velocity rounds make an ugly mess especially if bone is hit. Now days my deer rifles are a 45-90 sharps with paper patched bullets a Winchester 73 in 44/40 with cast bullets and my "long range" rifle is a 375 H&H. I do not shoot a game over 300 yards and rarely will take that long of a shot. The calibers and rifles I use are not "the best" deer rifles I am sure. But rather the ones I most like to hunt with. | |||
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i have killed something over 100 deer almost all in the south out of tree stands under 75 yards3 i have used 250 savage, 257 roberts, 25'06,270,7x57. 280, 7rem mag, 308, 30'06, 35 whelen, and 44 mag. About 75 of these were killed with stock 30'06 round nose core locks and i never lost a deer or had to shoot it twice. My quickest kill was with a 35 whelen using a 225 sierra bullet at 2600 fps in a whelen. I have killed 6 deer with a 25'06 and 3 with a 270 both at 3,00 fps and all these deer ran 40-50 yds. When opening day comes this year i'll have a remington 700ks in 35 whelen if i draw a swamp stand and a 700lss in 7 rem mag if i draw a power line stand..I have never lost a deer that i have hit but have missed 3 shots since 1969. | |||
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Being in the military and travling I have shot game all over the world with 75% being taken with a 270 or 30-06 I did not always have the ablity to have reloads but if it was factory and I had a choice it was either Rem. CL or the old Win silver tip in 130 or 150 gr, if I had reloads it was either 130gr Nosler Part. or 150 gr Nosler SBBT.in the 06 I always looked for some 165gr or 180gr Rem CL there expansion was good and the bullet stayed together even thru bone if I had reloads they would be 165gr or 200gr partitions the 200 will go through 2 Kudu standing next to each other To me the lung shot is a chaser no matter what you shoot might be 50 yards or 500 my personal shot placement is simple under 50 yards Neck depending on game animal, over 50 yards high shoulder brake bone game drops or dies with in 10 yards or less, I don't like shoulder meat it tuff to start with. I have shot game with a 460 down through 22CF and to me it all about shot placement and every game animal is different some die right now and some don't my son shot a rather large blacktail about 2 weeks ago 30-06 using some older 150gr Winchester ST one shot right through the spleen deer took off just as he fired that's his story and he sticking to it, the deer dropped in it's tracks and never even kicked, I shot about same size BT with 338 225gr Partition (Brown Bear country) I hit him where I don't like to shoot the lung area but it was my only shot and was getting late and on my way in easy haul out after about 200 yards we found it but so had a bear bon appitite mr bear. Over the years I have drawen no conclusion to FPS vs bullet weight as far as killing. IMHO I would rather have a gun with a little more HP then one the lobbed them out there I still feel speed kills. TO EACH HIS OWN. Eagles from above | |||
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Interesting stuff, indeed, guys. I've killed a boat load of deer and used a bunch or different calibers. In fact every year me and my pal try a couple of new ones. In my hunting I'd have to say speed kills, big time. I have NEVER had a deer take a step when shot with a 130 grain NBT from a .270. That's just me, and I'm sure bullets make the difference when some people have good luck with one caliber and others don't. Next up would be the .260 Rem, an awsome round for deer. (By the way, why do hunters feel the .260 is only good for women and kids, Have they used it themselves? And why Barnes bullets, like it's marginal, it ain't!) Never had one get up from being shot with a 129 grain Interlock. I've had the opposite experience with the .308. Good hits with NBT's left me searching for deer, some of which made it over 75 yards from where they were shot. Again, the load and bullets make the difference. Use the right bullets, at the right velocity and any caliber will put deer in the deep freeze. If I were hunting for money, or my life depended on killing a deer, I'd have to say, I'd choose the .270, it's that hard to beat. I might also choose a 7mm-08, it too has the potential to be great, and with 130 grain Speer bullets, it's a hammer. All this is to say that any properly loaded caliber is a good deer killer. I may not have had the success that others have had with certain calibers, but I probably didn't explore them enough. I read where guys simply love the .243 for deer, not me. I've yet to find a bullet that performed on deer in it. But they must exist, as that caliber seems to sell a lot of sporter weight rifles. Then again the .257 Roberts is only a half step up in power and it kills like crazy, go figure. It's all in hitting the right load for the game. Bob | |||
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Did your shot just hit lungs, or did it hit the heart too? If not then it was a miss, as we should all be shooting for the heart. Lung shot animals can and do run many yards sometimes before they expire. Heart shot animals rarely make it more than a few yards and the blood trail is usually so good that Ray Charles could have followed it. We didn't inherit the land from our fathers, we're borrowing it from our children. | |||
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I would have to agree with Strut10 and Doubless. Imho, its all about energy transfer, along with shot placement. I live in Texas where we get to shoot alot of deer, and have been on two heard reduction hunts. While I own and shoot quite a few mag's and love them Ive never seen the lights shut off quicker than shooting them with my 220 swift. I shoot a 29" kreiger on a 700 action that drives a 55grn. b-tip at almost 4000fps. while I know its bad joo joo to start talking about shooting a 22 at deer, I can only contribute the quick kills to a 100% energy dump. | |||
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One of the best killers of deer I have used was a Chilean mdle. 93 mauser chambered in 7x57. Back when Roses department store was back in business and selling ammo they stocked yugoslavian 7x57 with the 175 grain "cutted edge" bullets. I shot a few deer with it under different circumstances and they usually acted like they knew they had been hit, took a few steps and laid down and died. | |||
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Shot placement over caliber for sure. I have shot at 6 wt deer and killed 5. 2 with a 3006, 2with a 300wm and 1 with a 223. The 223 droped them like a sack as well as the 300wm. 1 of the 06 150grsp chest shots ran 300 yds. The one that got away? Well, she was running about 40yds and I gut shot her with a 12ga 1oz slug. Never found her. Shot placement over caliber for sure. “I am an American; free born and free bred, where I acknowledge no man as my superior, except for his own worth, or as my inferior, except for his own demerit.” Theodore Roosevelt (1858 – 1919) | |||
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A lot of people seem inclined to chuckle when I say this, but, inside of 150 yards, I would rather use my .30-30 than any other rifle I own (or have ever shot deer with). I think it's bullet construction! The flat-nosed bullets are designed to open up at low velocities and never go fast enough to blow up. They just put the deer down! Every other round I've used on deer has had some "issues" with slightly erratic bullet performance, especially at relatively short ranges. RXM | |||
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Don't shoot at a deer stood facing you! Unless it's close enough to neck shoot. The frontal chest is likely to result in broken foreleg/shoulder and a deflected bullet not doing fatal damage. | |||
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I've never had a deer run when hit in the lungs with a .270 130gr at 3100fps muzzle velocity, when I use .308 150gr at 2800fps they always run, a long distance too! | |||
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It seemed that the bullet missed the spine and hit only one lung and therefore the slow bleedout. That shot is unusual and may never happen again for you. Therefore don't over react. In general I prefer more power than required in case the bullet does not hit in a perfect place. I also like faster rather than slower bullets in the smaller bores. Join the NRA | |||
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I am so sorry man. In 40 some ungulates i've shot and others i've seen, a heart shot is a lung shot is a liver shot. I have had all run more than 20 yds, and some dump on the spot, except heart shots. I've had 8 heart shots and only two of them ran under 50yds from impact. I am not saying heart shots aren't effective 'cause that would be stupid, but a good bullet between 1500 and 3300 fps in the boiler room means sausage. | |||
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AMEN! Ackley Improved user. Shot placement is critical in ALL calibers. It amazes me how many depend on a big boomer to make up for poor shots. It just doesn't work that way. A 260 will kill any deer living, just like a 300 Win Mag, and a 300 WM will would a deer just as well as a .260. My hunting pal, shot a 7 point on Monday in the boiler room with the first shot. Thinking that said buck was a victim of lead poisoning, he started out of his tree stand only to see the deer trying to climb up a small bank. A second shot, with the deer stumbling just as he shot, opened a small hole in it's belly. The deer made it to it's feet and began to run, (if you can call that running), at which point a third shot removed one of it's rear legs at the mid joint. The first shot would have killed most large deer withing a minute or so, but not Hercules. He made it nearly a mile from where he was shot, over hill and dale. At first the trail was only a slight amount of blood, just drops, but the last part of the trail was very, VERY bloody and leaves were moved out in a furrow. A blind man could have followed the second part of the trail, even though it was really losing a lot of blood. All this is to say that there's no figuring calibers, bullets and deer. I've seen deer shot with a .243 and cheap bullets, die right on the spot, and now I've seen a deer hit solid in the heart/lungs with one of the best deer calibers made, go much further than I would have ever believed. Pick your caliber, place your shot and hope for the best. NO ONE wants to would a deer, but it happens, and they hang onto life with a vengence. That's what makes them a great animal to hunt, they're cagey and tough. Bob | |||
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This is a tough subject to get a firm answer to. Like many of you, I have shot deer with many calibers. I think the surest killing gun I ever had was a Savage 110 in 7mm Rem. Mag. I bang/flopped a doe at 10 feet with it once. I also took a fair sized 6 pointer at 300 yards. The bullet literally spun him around. His feet were straight up when he landed. He did not appear to lunge at the shot. I really believe the bullet rocked his world. This was a spine shot. I had total confidence in the 7 Mag whwnevr I squeezed off one. ./l ,[___], l--L=OlllllO= O_) O_)~-)_) If at first you don't succeed,,,failure may be your thing!!! | |||
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My experience with the .25-06 is not that way.....every single shot I've ever taken with my .25-06 was a Bang/Flop. And it's more than a few deer taken with that gun. I too use 120 grain bullets and it's not relevant to me what brand. I've also seen/ had extremely good performance with the .243 and 6MM rem cartridges in my lifetime. Never a lost deer or one that needed to be trailed more than a few feet. Today I'm using a .30-06 for no reason other than it's something new. However I'm using 180 grain bullets to attain exits and so far the thing works like majik!!!!! I agree that too much velocity isn't good....IMO 2,700 is about right for a 180 grain .30 cal and not too much different for most others as well. The worst performance I've ever had was a shot from a 270 grain Hornady in a .375 H&H in a big buck. It just went thru and in about 200 yards the buck finally bled to death. This was a long shot and the bullet wasn't going fast enough to open up I assume... In any event it was a poor showing. Over all I believe that caliber don't mean much for deer. Placement and having the right bullet for the velocity and conditions is the trick. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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Most of the deer I've shot have been with a .243 (100 gr) or a 30-30. I always go for a high lung shot. Never have to trail a deer more than 50 yds and don't find this inconvienient. Besides, if you blow up the heart you've missed some of the best eating. ****************** "Policies making areas "gun free" provide a sense of safety to those who engage in magical thinking..." Glenn Harlan Reynolds | |||
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When you've shot a few more than 40 you will come to understand that there is quite a bit of difference in a shot only hits lungs and one that hits heart and lungs. The way the gentleman described his shot would indicate to me that it was a bit high, missing the heart altogether and only hitting one lung. My point was that if the shot had been a bit lower and taken out part of the deer's heart it probably would not have run as far. We didn't inherit the land from our fathers, we're borrowing it from our children. | |||
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It doesn't really seem to matter which caliber I have used. The best performance I have got is with a good heart/lung shot. Lung shot deer have had the habit to run a ways. They are usually easy to find due to the blood spray. As far as the velocity question goes, I like to keep them between 2500 and 2900 fps with leaning to heavy for caliber bullets. Shooting 120 gr 6.5mm bullets at 3100 fps through black spruce jungle is a recipe for a missed shot. Then again the .358 250gr at 2600 does very well. But I aint shooting over 100 yards either. I do have to confess that the .308" 165 gr nosler bt does very well at 3100 in my .30-7mm RM. But that's my "power line" rifle. ______________________ Are you gonna pull those pistols or whistle Dixie? | |||
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Either of these combos have worked well for me, in the process collecting several hundred head of game. #1, .270 Win, 130gr Nosler Partition @ 3000fps (+/- 35fps). Critters up to 250kgs live weight. #2, 35 Whelen, 250gr Nosler Partition @ 2450fps (+/- 50fps). Critters up to 550kgs live weight. Either will work well for deer sized (up to 250kgs)game. If you don't reload, and want the best choice of loaded ammo to suit just about every scenario, go 30-06. In your specific scenario, I would go with the 35 Whelen, and reload using Nosler Partitions. Cheers, Dave. Cheers, Dave. Aut Inveniam Viam aut Faciam. | |||
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It's about shot placement. A major shock to the central nervous system will drop a deer in it's tracks: head (no shit), neck and spine, whether that be a direct frontal shot: high chest/lower neck; broadside: a direct spine shot or a high lung shot will shock the spinal cord and drop them. A major initial blood loss shot also will drop them immediately or near close to it: heart shot, the above mentioned shots will also injure the aorta with major blood loss (neck gets the carotids). The key here is major loss of blood, no blood to brain, down goes thumper. Lung shots will result in death after some exsanguination, hence the major basis for discussions of my caliber is better than your caliber. Major lung damage, quicker death. Using the same principles, ironically a high gut shot may/will drop a deer quicker than a pure lung shot. Outfitters religiously preach to their clients the shoulder shot because they want to break a bone in order to immobilize/minimize travel while awaiting the lung damage to put the animal down. I know of many deer taken with .223 and 22-250 with neck shots. Of course bigger bullets break more bones.................... There are two types of people in the world: those that get things done and those who make excuses. There are no others. | |||
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During the past 37 years of deer hunting I have be in on the killing of hundreds of deer. With every thing from 22lrs to over 40cal DGRs. What I have learned is a lung, heart shot deer will run most of the time. I have seen them bang and flop and I have seen them run up to a 100 yards or so give or take a few. What I have also seen is lots of people claiming they double lunged or heart shot them to only find out later if the deer is found that they did not. If a deer runs more then a 100 yards or so it has not been double lunged or heart shot. Bullet placement is more important then caliber the smaller and lighter the bullet for caliber the more perfect the bullet placement has to be. One can drive a heavier bullet through more of the deer than one can with a lighter caliber or bullet. I would not worry about hunting deer with a 22lr if I had the time to pick perfect shot placement. Like wise I am not to worryed about driving a heavier bullet through the shoulder or like wise. The last 5 or so years I have killed 90%(over 20) of my deer with a 165gr rem sp at 2350 out of my sav 99 the closest has been with in feet the farest pushing over 300 yards. That combo has worked well is it the best deer cailber beats me. I just like it, my Dad killed some where around 200 deer he says it his favorite. In another year or two maybe I'll find a new toy to kill deer with. If I do I am sure it well kill deer just fine. | |||
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Out of about 40 deer killed I've only had two deer drop dead. My cleanest was also with a 50 cal round ball, a 100+ yd. broadside that flipped a large doe over with her feet sticking up and not a single twitch. The other was a 75 yard shot in the "star" of the chest of a deer walking straight toward me- he dropped like his legs just disappeared. I was using a .300 Savage pushing a 180 gr. bullet that left the muzzel at around 2,400 fps. So why do I keep using "faster" rounds????? | |||
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My most instant kills have been with either; NOT counting neck or spinal shots... 260 Rem, 100 grain Ballistic tip... 3350 fps at the muzzle.. distances from 100 to 300 yds....straight down dead....thru the lungs..... and the most consistent, instance dead.... 444 Marlin, 300 grain XTP at about 1700 fps MV.... My experiences otherwise mirror Scota's experiences....Kinda why I am not a Magnum user and when I do tout one, it is with a 220 grainer in my 300 Winchester or a 250 grain Round Nose in my 338 Mags... ( of course unless I am hauling downloads...) We are all being sold on the fact that faster is better by the Ammo companies....Of course the WSMs concept didn't exactly bail Winchester out of the RED did it... guess they aren't learning real well.... Yet people scratch their head at something as practical like the 260 Rem....and ask why did they bother to bring out a 'boring' cartridge like that one??? All I can say to them in response... is "if we have to explain the obvious, you don't have the capacity to understand the answer.....  "Cheers seafire  | |||
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I'll have to take issue with that. Over the years I've shot most of my deer with a 7MM Rem. Mag. 139 Gr. Hornady interlock loaded to 3300 + fps. They have been shot at ranges form 35 feet to 500 yards. Meat loss; well I shoot them in the neck so my guess would be I lose 2 pounds of burger max. Oh they drop like a brick. | |||
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Deer are not very big animals and are not particularly thick skinned. 1. Bullet placement is paramount. The owner of a ranch I hunt in South Texas shoots all his deer with a 22-250. Head shots on does for lunch meat and neck shots on bucks (mature bucks weigh 210-230 lbs). 2. I've shot deer with a 7mm Rem, a 300 WSM (borrowed guns). But I only shoot (my) 270 win on deer. Plain jane interlocks kill the same as TSX, Scirroccos and Partitions. No rhyme or reason on whether the deer run or drop because of bullets, or caliber, it depends where you shoot 'em. 3. The last 3 deer I shot (2 weeks ago) were a Coues deer and 2 Mule deer (See Sonora Trifecta in Big Game Hunting section) They were shot using a 270win 140gr TSX. The large mule deer at 300 yards. The buck dropped on the spot (slightly quartering away, just behind the shoulder)- I didn't see him drop, my guide smiled and said "bueno...otro mass"(or something like that) translated "good, now shoot that one over there." That one dropped on the spot at 250 yards (head on, center of chest).The Coues deer dropped at 100 yards, also a head on center of chest. My personal experience: the head on center of chest has always dropped them on the spot, probably because you get aorta/root of heart and a spinal shock all in the same hit. But any high lung shot does the same: spinal cord shock. Those are MY TWO PREFERRED LOCATIONS! 4. No gun helps with poor marksmanship. A gutshot is a gutshot, whether from a .223 or a .375. 5. Varmint type bullets drop em dead, but tend to leave poor blood trails. I prefer through and through (hence my love for TSX). 6. Deer ain't too hard to kill.....Elk are a different story. There are two types of people in the world: those that get things done and those who make excuses. There are no others. | |||
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I think it goes to more of the bullet construction - Speer/Serira/Rem Core Loks bullets seem to be the ticket on deer! You don't need a heavy controlled expandtion bullet for deer. All of mine have droped DRT or just a few feet . And I don't run mine full tilt either 2700-2800 fps in my '06! One shot One Kill | |||
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in my experience, if i deer can't breathe, it isn't going anywhere. it might run a few yards, it might even manage to dash a hundred yards, but it's going to die. shredded lungs in my opinion are best overall choice of any variety of situations and also offer the biggest target. if a well-expanded bullet of any caliber or weight happens to hit the heart along the way through, so much the better. if a specific situation calls for a better shot, then take the better shot. | |||
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Sierra 150 grain Game King handloaded in Federal Match case over 47 grains IMR 4064 @ about 2850 fps. Placed in the boiler room or neck, whitetail either drop in their tracks or go no more than 20 yards. Massive exit wound if bone is hit. | |||
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Doh! That would be .308 Winchester cal from a Remington Model Seven. Sorry guys. | |||
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