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<dfaugh>
posted
Will be using 115-125 gr. cast, moly coated...not sure which ones yet...Trying to duplicate "Black Talon" loads, which are hard to get and expensive...oh yeah, Will be using in carbine only
The reason I'm trying to duplicate the "Black Talon" loads, is that I get quite the velocity gain, outa (relatively) long carbine barrel
 
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<chevota>
posted
About ten years ago I played with 9mm loads and settled on 8.8gr of Blue Dot with a Remington 124gr FMJ bullet. I use mixed brass and discard odd brands with less than normal case volume. I seat to 1.130" OAL, .030" over the standard max length for a little chamber presure reduction.
This is my favorite 9mm round and is better than any factory rounds that friends have let me try (I've never bought 9mm ammo).
The Blue Dot powder seems to be the best powder bar none for the 9mm. It's also the best for 12ga magnum shells, which works great for me since these are the two shells I load the most.
I've also loaded 95JHP w/10.0gr, 115JHP w/9.5gr, 130FMJ w/8.8, and 158LRN (for 38/357) w/6.0gr. The 115 and 130 are excellent but the 124FMJ were avaliable in bulk and therefore a lot cheaper. There is room to load these even hotter if needed. Keep in mind how important case volume is to velocity, so the shortest bullets combined with the max OAL cartrige length your gun can handle is the ticket.
 
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I tried to develop the most powerful 9x19 load I could with 115, 124, and 147 gr for my Kel-Tec P11, Glock 19, Star M43, Tokarevs, and CZ52s. I spent hundreds of hours and found Power Pistol the best. It is loud and has a big flash, but it get the most velocity. Runners up for me were HS-6 and 3N37. After that it is AA#5.

For a starting point, look at the Alliant book loads:
http://www.AlliantPowder.com/

The following powders for 9mm 124 gr:

Bullseye .......only 8.8 gr will fit
Unique .........only 7.4 gr will fit
Blue Dot .......only 10.1 gr will fit
2400 ............only 12 gr will fit
800-X ......... only 7.7 gr will fit
AA#9 .......... only 12.7 gr will fit*
H110 ............only 13.8 gr will fit*
LIL'GUN..........only 13.8 gr will fit*
Power Pistol . .only 10.3 gr will fit
3N37..............only 10.2 gr will fit, but I can't get there, because
it will case bulge first ~10gr
HS-6 .............only 12.5 gr will fit, but I can't get there, because
it will case bulge first ~10 gr
AA#5 .............only 13.7 gr will fit, but I can't get there, because
it will case bulge first ~9gr

*these powders do not compress

Since then I have been experimenting with LONGSHOT and N105. LONGSHOT compresses well, and N105 compresses a little.

In longer cases like the 9x23 LONGSHOT will beat POWER PISTOL. In even longer cases like 357 mag, LIL'GUN will beat LONGSHOT. Power Pistol is best in 9x19 with an over all length from 1.000 to 1.169". LONGSHOT moves to the top when the OAL is 1.3"

I like the 158 gr LSWC in 9x23 and 357 mag [hot rodded 38 special].
I see that Chevota has used it in 9x19, and I should give it a try.
 
Posts: 2249 | Registered: 27 February 2001Reply With Quote
<chevota>
posted
dfaugh: What is the velocity of the Black Talon loads? The loads I listed were not +P so there is more to be had. Any idea what the SAAMI limits are for +P and +P+?

Clark, I'm surprised the Power Pistol is advertised as a "Best choice for high performance 9mm" since it's burn rate is a lot faster than Blue Dot. Alliant showed a 5.5% higher velocity for the 125gr using Power Pistol, but its pressure was 13.7% higher. I imagine if the Blue was bumped up to equal pressure it would certainly surpass Power Pistol. Maybe they're trying push their new product and make PP look good next to old reliable BD. BD is the fastest powder I buy, except for Green Dot to make "wussy" 12ga loads for the boy(9yrs).
Btw, the 158LRN and 158JHP I tried were just for fun. They eat up too much case volume for any real power, they were about like 38 Specials. Also tried 88JHP but they were too light for BD so I didn't mess with them anymore.
 
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I have done tons of load development with the 9x19 in my Beretta 92FS. The below two loads are the best by far in my gun. One is a great practice load that will punch the center out of a target at 15 yards offhand. The other is an awesome self defense load and is extremely accurate.

#1 Target/Practice [Cool]
122 gr. Lead Truncated Cone (Cast to 20 Brinell)
4.1 grains of W231
1100 FPS Chronographed

#2 Defense [Eek!]
Any Premium 115 gr. JHP
9.1 grains of AA#7
1250 FPS Chronographed
 
Posts: 487 | Location: Central Texas | Registered: 07 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Chevota,
I don't know why Power Pistol gets the highest velocity when all the powders are pushed to case full or case bulge.

Maybe the burning rate of a powder is not one dimentional.
800X in 10mm and Power Pistol in 9mm are certainly beating slower powders when pushed to the point where pressure is causing problems.
 
Posts: 2249 | Registered: 27 February 2001Reply With Quote
<chevota>
posted
Clark,

Do you still have the load/velocity data for the Blue dot? You wrote "...only XX gr will fit", I assume from the 8.8 Bullseye that you did not actually shoot those. I'm finally running low on the ones I made many many years ago and may try experimenting again.
Also, did you have the data for the Power Pistol load? If I get the chance anytime soon I'll Crony my old load and post it. Hopefully it's as powerful as I think it is.
 
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Chevota,
10.8 gr of Blue Dot is ok 1.169" 124 gr FMJ FP Hornady, but 11 gr pierces the wsp primer.

The most power I currently get from 9mm is 11 gr Power Pistol, 158 gr XTP or 158 gr LSWC, 1.169" RP primed brass. This is difficult to load or the primer will blow at 8.5 gr. The powder must be compressed with something other than the bullet or the bullet will squish. The ammo must be partially resized with no de capping stem or bullet pinch will result and a blow primer [ or worse]. The round must chamber easily.

The 357 mag max load is 8 gr of Power Pistol, so this is really in an unsafe for beginning relaoders relm.
 
Posts: 2249 | Registered: 27 February 2001Reply With Quote
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