45-70 Gov't Marlin 1895 22" barrel
300 grain Sierra ProHunter hollow point seated to 2.525" and crimped with a Lee Factory Crimp Die 7/8 turn in from a ram up shellholder
W-W brass trimmed to 2.1"
CCI 200 primer
56 grains of H4198
2200 fps
Deer and black bear load. Hodgdon #27 starting load is 55 grains of H4198.

45-70 Gov't Marlin 1895 22" barrel
405 grain Remington JSP seated to 2.55" and crimped with a Lee Factory Crimp Die 7/8 turn in from a ram up shellholder
W-W brass trimmed to 2.1"
CCI 200 primer
55 grains of H322 compressed
1950 fps
Big game load for elk, moose and mountain grizzly. Maximum load, reduce by 10% and work up in your rifle.

I haven't chronoe'd this load yet but it is real accurate out of my Guide Gun: Speer 400 gr FP, 53.0 gr of IMR-3031, Rem Brass, and Rem 9 1/2 Primers. The powder charge is listed as Max. Sean

LoneEagle, That is a derivative of the infamous Elmer Keith load. If you can stand the recoil, you can take it up to 54.6 grains of IMR 3031 watching for signs of excessive pressure or velocity (1975 fps from an 1895G).

jackfish, I tried another load this weekend with the 400's. 58.0 grs of H335 (Speer Manual Max.). This averaged 1840 fps and was every bit as accurate as the 3031 load. Sean

Jackfish: Have you shot those loads in both the 1895 with PG and 22-inch barrel and the Cowboy with straight grip and 26-inch barrel? I sure found the latter more punishing in the recoil department than the former, which surprised me until I though about where the weight is distributed in the two Marlins.

I have only shot these loads in 1970's (1975 and 1977) vintage Marlin 1895s with straight grip, squared lever, 22" microgroove barrel, curved hard buttplate (one replaced with a Pachmayr Decelerator). The deer load is quite comfortable to shoot, the 405 grain load can be painful from the bench without a PAST shoulder pad.

[ 08-21-2002, 01:02: Message edited by: jackfish ]

Hey guys,
Just ordered a guide gun. How much does velocity suffer from 3.5" less barrel? Have any of you tried AA 2200. I got quite a bit for a 223 that I sold, and was planning on working up loads with it. Any comments?

thanks
Mike

give-or-take, about 50 fps. The difference between my 1895g(18.5") and 1895ss(22") is not even enough to think about.

Jackfish
I've found IMR 4064 works well in my 45-70 bolt gun, using the various jacketed 400 grainers. It's right impressive when fired early in the morning just as the sun begins to peep into the hollow. It reminds me of an old press 50 flash bulb going off in a dark room.
I'm not sure if there's any scientific basis to back up this next observation........But I use the same load 54-56 grains of IMR 4064 with a 445 grain gas checked cast bullet, same accuracy, but much less muzzle flash. Is it possible the heavier slug is causing the powder to burn more completely?
Jim

I've been shootin 54 gr. of 3031 in rem. cases with wlr primers for years in my 1895 marlin. I get 2 inch groups and 1975 fps. Excellent elk rifle in the timber.

Jackfish How have you been?

My vote for the best bullet you can use in a 45-70 will go to the hornady 350 grain fn

I have had good luck with the 300gr rem jhp (holds together better than rem 405gr jfp)over 56gr of accurate 2015 in my nef handi rifle,ww cases,cci br-2,and yes the lee factory crimp die,I don`t need a crimp but powder seems to burn better.no 5 rd groups over 1.5" with this load and most under 1",a 2.5x8 vari-x 111 tops it all off.my cast load shoots even better,either a 405gr home cast fbhp (lee mould they had to open up a bit to give an honest .459 bullet and they added extra wide lube grooves too)over 39gr aa2495,a .75" square of t.p. fill case with farina cereal (what I had on hand)seat to compress all,have had many 5rd groups in the .25" range when shooter could hold that well (most of the time not me behind rifle,can`t hold breath long enough to get steady lately)other bullet is 350gr bbfp from Oregon Trail,ww cases,cci br-2 or wlr,12.5 gr red dot,no filler,just load and shoot.groups in 1-1.5" are common at 100 yds.and very cheap to shoot.

First time posting here.
Howdy Jackfish.

Hornady 350 gr. JFP seated to col 2.55"
H-4198 50.0gr.
Starline Brass 2.1"
CCI 200 primer.
Lee factory crimp..die set at 1/2 turn into ram contact.

I don't have a chronograph, but these produced 1.0-1.25 in. 3 shot gps. at 100yd.
Marlin GS in 45/70.

Also, I got some Leadhead plain base 405 gr. yesteday. Any suggestions on powder and charge wt. with R-7, H-4198, and H-335. I did load 10 rds. last night with 44.0 gr. R-7.

IF these preform well, I'm thinking of ordering the 425 gr Gas Checked later.

Jeff

Some loads using South African Somchem Powder in Ruger #1

350 gr Hornady RN
62 gr S335 (compressed) Somchem
CCI LR primer
W-W cases
2100 fps
0.385" group at 100 m from bench

400 gr Speer
60 gr S335 ( compressed )
PMP LR primers
W-W cases
1988 fps
0.515 " group from bench at 100m

Beware S335 is temp sensitive and these are Winter loads . In summer reduce charge by 3 grains or more . Recoil is stout from bench .
The loads are safe in my gun but may not be in a Marlin ?? With the 400 gr I would recommend anybody start with 54 gr and work up slowly , with the 350 gr start with 55gr S335 .
Fed 215 primers add more velocity but seems unnecessay .

Ben

Yspen,

Where can I find data for Somchem powders. I spend a lot of time in Namibia and RSA, and I will finally have some reloading equipment over there now. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks a lot..!!

Joel Slate
Slate & Associates, LLC
www.slatesafaris.com

7mm Rem Mag Page www.slatesafaris.com/7mm.htm

Bigbelly your lot of Rem 300 grain Hp's must have been different than mine. I consider it a very soft bullet that penetrates satisfactorily for deer and I would not use it on anything bigger. Even at reduced velocities this bullet over expands but still retains most of it's weight. Does kill deer quickly though. My new timber load uses enough H4198 to get 1600 fps with a 340 grain cast bullet out of the LEE mold. Testing will tell if this is the load for my hog and deer hunting.

Rickt300,I`ve also had very good luck with that lee 340,but call Oregon Trail and ask for some samples of their 350bbfp.You may even stop casting as I have done.this bullet shoots(at least in my $175 rifle)I don`t know why my 405gr rem`s seem to come apart but they do,I know that big piece of lead,even without jacket WILL work on all it is used for,I was just stating my experience with them.The 405`s were pretty old though.this year I got my first elk permit,was going to use the 45-70 but happened on a new 9.3x62 barrel that fit my old German 98 perfectly,now I can have a backup or four in the mag,just in case.I agree O.S.O.K. but this is my first elk so I`ll go over prepped rather than just right.

Your right the core is pretty big and the jackets are thin and light. I never reloaded the 405 Remington bullet, I just shot them as factory ammo and they penetrated thru deer with little apparent expansion. The deer went down quick though. I can't say how they act at higher velocities. The 300 gr. Rem HP though I have pushed to 2100 fps and down to 1400 fps and this bullet always expands some to a lot.

jrslate

Somchem do have a small reloading manual which most SA gunshops should stock . The do not however list loads for the 45/70 but only the most popular calibers used in SA.

For my 45/70 and 6,5x55 had to do my own load development by comparing burnrates of US powders that seems to correspond to the available Somchem powders .
Eg S335 is somewhere between IMR3031 and IMR4895 .

GS custom bullets' website has a good burnrate chart for referance of Somchem powders .

Hope this helps

Ben

My 45-70 load is a 510 grn straight sided Paper Patched bullet of pure lead, well maybe 3% tin, atop 33 grns of Reloader 7, It lumbers out the end of my Marlin Cowboy Gun at around 1425 fps. Accuracy during load development with a Weaver K-2.5 was in the 1 1/4 range. Recoil is firm. Currently looking for a tang sight for same..

What kind of mold do you use for your PP bullet? I have been looking for one without a lot of luck here lately.

The bullets are swaged, not cast or moulded, from Montana Precision Swaging, ask for Russ. If you need I can post a phone number when I get back to the house.

Muffin

I would be gratefull if you could. Thanks.

Montana Precision Swaging, 406-494-0600, ask for Russ.

I shoot 62.5 grains of Benchmark, Winchester brass, Fed210M, and 300 grain Nosler partitions (protected point) with my Marlin Guide gun (18.5" barrel). It shoots in an inch at 100 yards and chronographed at 2100 fps. Shoot one deer with it so far. Needless to say it worked wonderfully!

Bob257

Got some 405 Remingtons at the gun show a couple of weeks ago and tried several loads. The standout for accuracy is 31 grains of IMR 4227. I am still amazed at the accuracy of the Marlin 1895's. Out of my 22 inch barrel I figure I am getting 1550 fps and three shot groups of just over an inch. Shot into soft clay these bullets penetrate deep and expand to look just like the deadliest mushroom in the woods with jacket and core together. The 340 grain cast LEE bullet pushed by the same powder charge hits 2 inches higher and will now be my plinking/play bullet without any sight changing, Success finaly!

[ 12-16-2002, 18:27: Message edited by: rickt300 ]

Jackfish (anybody really?) ever develop a safe load using Cast Performance .458/460gr WFNGCs for their Marlin 1895s? What about CP's .458/420gr WLNGCs? Looking for something in the 1500~1600 fps range with the 460s and upper 1600~mid 1700 fps for the 420s. Would IMR 3031 be OK? I'm using Winchester brass and Federal 210s.

Thought you might like to see pictures of a Paper Patched 45 cal 510 grainer shot into soft damp sand 1425 fps at muzzel, sand berm about 20 yards away. Shot from the Marlin Cowboy Gun.

http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4290830869

My favorite Marlin GG in 45-70, my load that I use for everything here in Alaska is

Reloader 7 @ 51.8
350 Hornady FN or 350 Woodleigh RN
Fed 210GM Primers
Fed Nickle Cases
Crimp using Lee Factory Crimp Die

Groups less than MOA at 100 yards
Vel 1950 FPS in 18.5" barrel

My Guide gun likes the 300 grain Nosler Partitions over 62.5 grains of Benchmark powder, Winchester brass and Federal 210M's. Chronographs at 2100 fps and shoots in an inch at 100. Can't complain.

Bob257