I started out playing with a light load in a 8 x 57 recently utilizing 25 grains of IMR 3031.

What I found were some accurate loads and not much recoil at all. I gather using a 170 grain round nose in the 8mm Mauser, I should have a nice 150 yd round for a kid. That is as far as they need to be shooting anyway, and I do think a 170 grain 8mm round might be more effective than a 90 grain 6mm round.

Tried the same 25 grains in a 6.5 x 55 with a 160 grain RN and in a 7 x 57 with a 154 grain round nose. Same accuracy.

My faith in Round noses and their performance is also making me have confidence in these loads.

In the 6.5 x 55 it duplicates the old 6.5 x 54 Mannlicher Schonauer loads, which have a good reputation in Africa. Even Elmer Keith spoke well of it.

About 80 % of all deer in the USA ( and I am sure Canada also) are taken at 100 yds or less.
So why does a kid need a 500 yd round for a 100 yd shot?

Will go out and chronograph them tomorrow.

Also did the same formula with a 170 grain FN in a 30/06 and it was giving decent accuracy also.

[Q]So why does a kid need a 500 yd round for a 100 yd shot?[/Q]

Or any of the rest of us, for that matter!

Those old slow, heavy RN bullets in the 6.5's and the 7mm's are very effective bullets.

Eldeguello:

I agree with you agreeing with me! Lol.

I loaded up some 175s in a 7 x 57 yesterday, and went out and chronographed them. I used 26 grains of IMR 3031, and got a MV of 1750fps.

About a hundred yards away in a clearing in the woods (I sometimes use for chronographing when I don't feel like driving thru town to go to the Range.) was a tree to help with the backstopping of the bullets. It was about 18 inches plus in diameter. I chronographed 7 shots.

Just before leaving, I walked over to the tree just to see if any bullets had penetrated all the way thru ( of which I was highly doubting).
To my surprise there were 7 holes on the backside of the tree! The bullets were just generic Remington Bulk Core Lokts in 175 grains.

I was surprised and I can see some of the mag crowd tell me how full of shit I am. However, I saw what I saw. How much muzzle velocity did I loose in 100 yds? Haven't calculated that, but I can sure attest that a 175 grain bullet will sure go thru a lot of wood at low impact velocity. If I owned a 7 mag ( which I don't) it would be interesting to see if the same bullet in a Mag would have penetrated 18 inches plus of wood at 100 yds.

Keep 'em hanging!!!

Seafire. The old 7x57 earned it's reputation on some pretty big beasties using a 175 gr. round nosed bullet at 2200-2300 FPS. That slug was well known for it's ability to penetrate, get there, arrive. A bullet I always liked was the Sierra 170 gr. RN, that they discontinued a few years back. Some diligent scrounging found me five boxes. Methinks I have a lifetime supply. I have a couple of bopxes of the Hornady 175 gr. RN's that I'm planning to play with. We'll just ave to see what I can make those do in my rifles. I'm thinking I can safely get them up to right around 2500 FPS which should make them just fine for elk out to about 200 yards without doing my messed up shoulder too much damage. I took a fall about three months ago and landed on my right shoulder first really screwing it up. The hard kicking rifles I'd normally use for elk are now just a bit much, although I could propbably do maybe three rounds before the pain got to be too much. I think I'll just go with the 7x57 and not worry about it. I just hope I can get within 200 yards of an elk where I drew my tag for. These critters are smart and hole up way out in these two to three mile wide meadows, usually right in the middle. It's virtually impossible to get really close up to them. Oh well. I'll just have to give it my best shot. (No pun intended.)
Paul B.

Paul B:

Sorry to hear about the shoulder, I hope it heals up soon for you.

I looked in some of my own load data, and in a 7 x 57 with a 170 grain round nose Sierra, using 42.5 grains of AA 4064, I have chronographed right at 2700 fps. I shoot this in a Winchester Model 70 Featherweight. 2.5 inches high a 100 yds puts you right on at 200. 3.5 inches high at 100 would put you right on at about 250-260 yds. 40 grains of IMR 3031 will give you 2500 fps with a 175 grain bullet.

Good luck with it this elk season!!

Seafire, Ol' W.D.M. Bell once stated that the 175-grain 7mm solid round nose was the only bullet he had ever heard whistling away through the air after it had gone thru an elephant's head!!

Not too long ago, I read in some magazine (don't remember which one) the results of some penetration tests made by a couple of African hunters. They shot several cartridges in the .458" and .500" persuasion, some of them the "British Double-Barrelled-Big Bore types, and a .45/70! ALL rounds were shot with solids. I don't recall what weight bullet was used, a 500 or 540 grain, in a .45/70, and the .45/70 OUT-PENETRATED ALL OTHER ROUNDS TESTED, including the African loads, all of which had pretty high SD's, AND, they all had a HIGHER MV than the .45/70 load they tested, which clocked right at 1500 FPS! So sometimes, slower is better!!

[ 08-26-2003, 01:17: Message edited by: eldeguello ]

EldeG:

Yeah, while I do not shoot a 45/70 it is on my short list of calibers I do need to add to my collection. Either in a Browning 1886 Winchester reproduction or one of the older reproduction of the black powder single shots.

One of the gentlemen from Scandanavia on the European Hunting chat board told me that the Swedish Version of Fish and Game did a test comparing penetration capabilities, as they use that to assign a caliber range to their game hunting over there. In today's modern times, some are saying that the old 6.5 x 55 is out moded and their are much superior cartridges. Since that is the equivalent of the 30/06 in this country, it caused quite a stir.

Well with the old 156 grain Round nose, they found that the 6.5 x 55 had a great penetration result than a 375 H & H with a 300 grain Round Nose did. The MAG crowd either sweep that under the carpet like so much dirt, or they just act like it is a bunch of BS.

Since the turn of the century we have come a long way in terms of powder sales volume, but we have not come a long way on bullet penetration and game performance when one really works with some of the older cartridges.

Of course the others will just think we are idiots and go out and buy their new " Mag D'jour" for this season.

There is not much an old 45/70 loaded with a 500 grain bullet won't take. I load a 444 Marlin with a 300 grain XTP hornady at about 1500 fps. It is amazing what kind of hole that round puts into something. I push bullets faster in the 444 and they do less of a terminal job on their target ( paper excluded).

Pulled out the old 30/40 Krag tonight. That is my project this week! Playing with 220 grain RNs and 180 grain Round Noses, at about 1900 to 2000 fps.

Accuracy out of this old rifle is amazing, it was built in 1898 and has the original military barrel on it. It will do 3 inch groups with open sites at 200 yds, which is amazing since I can't see worth a crap thru the sites on it. I got it with a Lyman peep site mounted on it, vintage 1950s.

Seafirew, I am a single-shot guy, and have a Ruger No. 1 in 7X57, one in .45/70, one in .375 H&H, and a No. 3 in .30/40. All excellent, OLD cartridges. I really like the .30/40, and in the No. 3 it is amazing what it will do, with both slow and fast loads (BEATS a .308!!).

eldeG:

If you are a single shot guy, ( which I respect), where we were talking about the 220 grain loads in a 30/30. I would love to have a Ruger No 1 chambered in a 30/30.

Then all the pressure other people say that it must produce, would not be an issue in the Number One. A nice Stainless one with a Grey Laminate stock, and a 1 x 4 or 2 x 7 Leupold on it.

A guy I occasionally see at the Range that use to have a huge gun collection and gave up hunting, so he sold almost all of them: however he does have a collection of Ruger No 1's in special run calibers. Last time I saw him is he had a stainless number one in a 300 H & H. Said it was a special run of 50 made for Davidson's in Arizona. Nice rifle.

Our local gun shop had a Stainless Receivered, GreyLaminate Stock, but a matte black barrel in 30/06 from Davidsons. Price was $ 495.00! It lasted on the shelf less than 8 hours.

A batch of my bolt guns will probably be traded off for Single shots in the next few years.