Maybe this is common knowledge, but here goes.

At the range I was shooting a 270 with 140 grain TSX's and a 30-06 with 168 and 180 grain TSX's. I had meant to clean the guns before going to the range but did not have time. They had both been shot about 20 times since previous cleaning. I noticed that my 270 load which I was trying to get as close as possible to 3170 fps were reaching 3310 fps. This seemed odd since I had just increased powder load .2 grains from the previous range session that had averaged 3150 fps. Accuracy was a little off at 1" groups rather than the usual 1/2".

So I decided to clean at the range with Barnes CR-10. The groups shrank back down to 1/2" and the velocity fell off to an average of 3175 for 4 shots. So I cleaned the 30-06 and the groups also shrank and velocity fell off 110 fps from 2860 to 2750 for the 180 grain, shells from the same loading session.

clean gun = low velocity, high accuracy
dirty gun = higher velocity, worse accuracy

Been reloading for a while but haven't had my chrony long enough to notice this trend in other bullets. The better accuracy could have been predicted but I would have guessed different on the lower velocity with clean gun.

Anyone else noticed this?

In my SS Model 70 30-06 with the Barnes TSX in the 168 gr. HPBT I get alot faster velocity with it compared to a lead core bullet of the same weight. I believe the velocity gain has to do with less bearing surface of bullet=more velocity. The clean barrel (less velocity) verse non-clean barrel (more velocity), not sure about that one? It should be the other way around in my way thinking of the process? But, what the heck, anything is possible.

It seemed as if the bullet was actually "skidding" more down the barrel when the barrel had a layer of fouling. Don't know if it was the carbon fouling or copper fouling. Not very scientific, but if the bullet was skidding because of some mechanical influence of the cannelures or softer copper of the TSX, it might make sense for it to go faster but be controlled less by the rifling grooves and thus less accurate.

Don't really load anything else besides the TSX because I'm having such good success with them, so I was wondering if other shooters have noticed velocity increases or accuracy losses with progressive fouling with other bullets.

The loss of velocity seems odd. I use the 180TSX in my 300 SAUM with 62.5 IMR4350 and Win Mag primers. The groups are very tight (1/2) and I use the CR10 after 5 rounds in a new Sendero with glassed bed and 2 lb trigger.

Well gents, here's my take on the situation.

I should couch my opinion/theory my saying I've never shot a Barnes mono-metal bullet in my life. [what I'm shooting now ain't broke, so it don't need fixin']

Premise 1 - Barnes mono-metal bullets tend to foul faster than "conventional" bullets. This is based on everything I've read on the various forums. The Triple Shock fouls less than the previous versions because it has less bearing surface.

Premise 2 - As the barrel fouls, it increases the friction. This increases the bullets resistence to inertia.

Premise 3 - As we all know, powders will burn at different rates depending on the pressure. Unconfined, as not much happens except oxidation. You confine it, and it's another story. The fouled barrel causes more resistance and thus higher pressure from the burning/expanding propellant. Higher pressure yields higher velocity.

Makes sense to me


P.S. - Hey CK, I'll look for you at the Hank Harmon Range sometime, eh? I have a Oehler 35 that I bring occasionally.

MuskegMan Hit it on the head.

Same thing as a fast barrel or a slow barrel, It has alot to do w/ diameter. Bigger dia usually equals lower velocity. Less friction=Less Pressure.

That is the main reason Barnes recommend not using cup and core bullet reloading data.

Hey Woods, Have you tried those 270 TS out on game yet?

Good Luck!

Reloader

quote:

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Hey Woods, Have you tried those 270 TS out on game yet?

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I shot 1 deer and 2 hogs, the deer in the boilerroom - went right through - down on the spot, 1 hog through the shoulder blades - all the way through - down on the spot, and other hog had to track about 50 yards but plenty of blood to follow. Those with the 270 win 140 grain moving about 3150.

Hey Woods, Have you tried those 270 TS out on game yet?

If you will write me at tblauwkamp@superior-sales.com I'll send you a report of my using 140 TSX in Africa in 2004.

I noticed something else happening with the TSX, but this is at the store not at the range.

In a city of 3 million people with about a dozen places to buy reloading supplies, all of them are having a hard time getting and keeping TSX bullets on the shelf. All the old X bullets stay in the same place and are collecting dust but the last shipment of TSX's were gone in 2 weeks, all except for .308 200 grains and .338 225's. A lot of shooter besides me are using a bunch of them. Also, the sales guy said he would order some and get them shipped in so we looked up .308 in 168 and 180 grains and the price had been raised by his distributor by $10.00 a box! I told him forget about it and ordered from Midway.

Seems like whenever I find something that really works like a tool, fishing lure, bullet, etc. that it either gets discontinued or the price goes up.

All the old X bullets stay in the same place and are collecting dust but the last shipment of TSX's were gone in 2 weeks, all except for .308 200 grains and .338 225's.

I have loaded the .338 225's in my 338-06, couldn't get better than 3" at 100 yds. Might be something to that.

Anyone have any loads for a 376 Steyr using TSX or any other Barnes X.

quote:

Originally posted by army aviator:
Anyone have any loads for a 376 Steyr using TSX or any other Barnes X.

72gr Vv N-550
235gr XLC
CCI 200 Primer
OAL- 3.11
1 MOA or better
2900 fps+
Steyr ProHunter 19" barrel

68gr Vv N-550
270gr TSX
CCI 200 primer
OAL 3.12"
Sub-MOA accuracy
2700-2725 fps
Steyr ProHunter w/19 inch barrel