New rifle for my wife... nice little Model 7 laminate that flys factory Winchester 140 grainers into 1.25" at 100. Only concern I have about the 140's is she's small, 105 pounds, with very little centerfire use. I was hoping someone could offer a 120 or 130 grain load that steps back the recoil a tad. I picked up some Varget and was hoping to build with that. The little rifle shows promise with factory crimped rounds, and I'm anxious to see how the handloads print. Anyone have a tight shooter favorite load for the light 120 grain bullet? Any and all info... case, primer, bullet type intended for whitetails... is greatly appreciated.

Don't have the exact amount of powder I used right in front of me, but I had good results with IMR4064, Remington cases, Winchester LR primers and Speer's 130 grain Hor Cor bullet in my 7mm-08 Model Seven. I think the dose was exactly halfway between the starting load and the max load listed in the Speer manual. Since I was hunting in the woods at the time and shots would not be far, I never went beyond that amount of powder. Killed my first whitetail with that load...

I've been using 45.5 grains of RL-15 and the Nosler 120 BTIP with very good results. Apparently Nosler put a heavy jacket on this bullet for the target guys to knock their steel over and made it into a hell of a good hunting bullet in the process. The above load is listed as a max load in the Alliant manual, so be careful if you use it. I also tried Varget, and although it shoot pretty good, the RL-15 shot a little tighter for me. Good luch, BEN243

I recently finished working up a load for 7mm08 using Sierra 120 spt. I did not have any Varget but did have IMR 4350 and IMR 4064. I obtained slighly better groups with IMR 4064. The load is 45.5 gr., however, my Sierra manual lists MAX. LOAD as 45.7. In your rifle start lower. My Browning Abolt II liked the OAL at 2.775".

I checked out other posts on several Forums and alot of shooters like Varget in 7mm08.

I don't particularly like the 120 grainer for deer, I haven't had one make an exit hole, so that decreases any blood trail!

I switched to 139 grain Hornady, Rem 9 1/2 primers and 45.0 grains of Accurate Arms MRP (3100)!
Recoil is not punishing, but if it's to much, drop back to 42.0 grains!

My latest Speer manual lists a conserative estimate on max loads for some of the powders named above... which I suspect is due to a world full of too much liability. I don't have any other new manuals, just old books way out dated or worse, that don't list the powder I want to use. I read so much on the 7mm08 and Varget powder that I just have to try that. I do have a few pounds of IMR4064 on hand that dumps whitetails out of my old Mauser 98 chambered in .270 Winchester. It'll shoot .5 MOA with 46.5 grains pushing a 130 spitzer all day long. So, I'll go that way if the Varget fails to croud the bullseye. Come to think of it, I have some other IMR's numbers in the box too... Thanks for all the input and keep 'em coming if ya got 'em.

I'd try the 120 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip over H4895. If she is not shooting long range, load them to 2600 fps (around 36 grs.). This will give you low recoil and good deer killing power and trajectory out to 225 yards or so.

Jolly,

A niece was having the same problem in a Browning 7/08 Micro hunter. Since her dad wanted her to use this rifle for Elk also, we did not want to go to a smaller bullet.

We are sticking with the 140s. ( partitions for Elk, and Remington Corelock for deer).

I loaded her up some with RL 7 and IMR 4198 out of the Lyman Manual. Both reduced the recoil for her, but the winner was RL 7 based on accuracy. IMR 3031 would be my next pick.

Good luck.

So there I was, sitting in the basement pondering what to do in the absence of 120 grainers. I do have some 130's and smoked over a few to see where the seating depth needed to fall. Now, I know the 120's will likely be different, but I was just bored. Before I could do much, I managed to properly stick a case. If that's not bad enough, I ended up pulling the rim off. Swell. Kind of like hitting yourself in the hand with a hammer... it swells. So, I fool around and with a little help from the good Lord, I get it out without hamfisting the sizer. The little voice in my head says, "Go upstairs now". Hey, here's another thought... since I've asked you folks for loading advice, what's your take on this. My little woman I married 12 years ago. We dated 7 years prior that and never, I repeat, not once, did she ever ask to go hunting. I've been shooting pistols, rifles, bows, potato guns, etc. for a while and she's never had an inkling to participate. I say to myself, "Self, ... do you think maybe she has a secret insurance policy?" Yeah, I can see it now... no woodsman, er I mean woodsperson experience, (political correctness), she "accidentally" trips, KerBLAM-O! Right in the back of the bean. She tells them that I did some unauthorized trigger thingy to the trigger thing, (you know, a trigger job on a Remington trigger - no biggie), and just like that, she's in Maui with the pool boy. Heck, and I ain't even got a pool! Maybe we shouldn't load her accurate rounds, but instead load up some blanks with tissue paper wadding. I need to quit goofing around and go to bed... there's a deer out there that needs an arrow. Thanks all. I'm writing them down and hope to build 'em soon.

Archer, I agree with Ben243. I used the 120 Nos on antelope in Sept in New Mex. I purposely hit the antelope in the right shoulder to hit big bone and hopefully drive thru the opposite shoulder. It did and was spectacular. Complete penetration with the 120 thru the heaviest part of the shoulders and got an exit hole. Distance was a lasered 100yds. I used R-15 also with R-P brass and 210 primers. My 7-08 is the improved version. I am very impressed with the 120 Nos. I wouldn't hesitate to use it on whitetails. Bill

OK, I felt that "jab"!

In my earlier reply, I wasn't talking about premium bullets! I was talking about your most common "off-the-shelf" type of bullets!

I have no doubt what-so-ever that a nosler will give complete penetration, with an exit hole! I have retreived "ONE" 150 grain Nosler Partition near the knee joint in the back leg of a whitetail, the shot was "head-on"!

I have used Hornady, Winchester& Remington bullets! Didn't get an exit hole and then switched to Hornady 139 grainers and haven't had a problem since!

Regards; Chuck

Jolly, I have a load of 40.3grs. H4895 with a 120Hornady HP, 91/2 primers and brass, it'll shoot under an inch easily in my 700S/S, most of the holes will be touching, the Varget you bought should work about as equal with about the same charge, maybe 1/2 grain more, Jay

With all the help I've received, (*hat off* to those who contributed), I'm ready to assemble the test rounds. I would have this evening if it wasn't for the a lack of range my bow has playing havoc with the lack of venison in the freezer. I'll take tomorrow off from the stick -n- string and get to it. I picked up another bullet type, the Hot Cor Speer spitzer in 120. I have the Noslers too and will dupe a trio of them as well. I'm planing on running the first few with the Varget... then on to the IMR and RL if need be. I am a bit concerned with the Noslers, since the load I am attempting to achieve has low recoil properties. I think the bullet design may require more zipitydo-dah day to perform at its best. What do you think? Oh, and while I'm here, what have you found, in general, to be a good place to start the bullet back from the rifling? This little Model 7 has a magazine that will accept all of the advertised maximum, but touches when the OAL is nearing just 2.650. What's your rule of thumb for seating the 7-08?

I use 120 barnes X bullets. They work wonders.

Jolly, Your "7" should have the same magazine length as my Rem 700, well In fact the Model 7 I reloaded for a couple years ago with 139Hornadys were seated to 2.830" which is the correct OAL for Rem short action magazines, the 120 Hornadys I use are seated to 2.770" and they're .010" off the lands, so, I guess I'd try .010" off the lands, I really don't think your wife is going to notice the recoil difference of lets say 40.3 and 36grs. of H4895, which would be my powder of choice for the 120, I didn't when working up a load with mine for the 150NBT and 39.5grs.-41grs. of Varget, of course thats a bigger spread, but nonetheless, all she's going to notice is the noise when it goes off, my son goes all of 90lbs, and has no problem with a M1 Garand, and shot my 708 with a max load when he was 8yrs. old, I'd just go with 41.5-44grs. of Varget, (having her test each load) since thats one of the powders you got, and the 120NBT, and be done with it, and she won't be able to tell the difference, believe me on this one, Jay

Jollyarcher, When I started loading the 120 grain Nosler BTips, I seated them to 2.800" (the Max overall length for a 7mm08)and tried them in my rifle (REM700). They went in fine and did not touch the lands/groves. When I test fired my reloads, they shot exceptionally well, so I never fooled around with the overall case length again. My rule is - Keep it simple, don't mess with something that works ? BEN243

Thanks for the advice guys... I'll be certain to post my results when I get back from the range. You both have me wondering now, in so far as what my OAL has been. I wonder about my caliper... been a while since I got it, we bought another house and moved last year, things could have got bounced around, I just don't know for sure. Perhaps I should break out the tape. I built a dummy round a couple days ago and seated the bullet to 2.800. I dropped it in and closed the bolt, which shut, but with resistance. I measured it after the removal and read 2.659. I dropped back to 2.550 and snugged the die down. I then dialed in a factory round just to see and recall a 2.400 reading. Anyway, I'll have more time to play at the bench as of today. I found a whitetail 21 yards away last night and drove an arrow through the chest just before dark. Recovery was fast, only a little more than 40 yards from the base of the tree I sat in. Double lung pass throughs are just hard to beat. Bring on the sandbags and bullseye.

Jolly, You should have pretty much the same size chamber as any other Rem. 708, give or take a few thousands, unless you've got a really short throat for some odd reason, I know with the 150 Ballistic tips, the ojive is touching the lands at 2.860", I've noticed alot of 120 gr. bullets for the 708 have an oal(set by the bullet manufacturer) of 2.730 up to 2.760 or so, if there's nothing wrong with your caliper, I'd have a gunsmith look at your rifle to see if the throat is abnormally short, and if so have him ream it out to proper specs., you shouldn't have to seat them bullets that deep. As far as your oal to fit the magazine, all Remington short action magazines(243Win.,308, 6mmRem. 7mm08, etc.) will fit a bullet that's seated out to 2.830", Browning limits their mags. to 2.800", been there done that. BTW, Just looked in my Hodgdon manual, and they've got a oal of 2.800" for the 120NBT, if you've got to go deeper than that your throat is way too short, and are in need of a reamer.
BTW, What are you shooting for a bow? Later, Jay

I'm leaning that way. If it's going to happen, it will happen to me. Maybe the barrel was the last run Remington did that particular day before the tooling die was replaced. That's me, the only person I know to drive through Burger Kings window, place an order for a regular value meal and end up with the bottom bun and the meat pattie. Yep, it's true, no bun top, no lettuce, ketchup, nuttin, nada, zip. I'm going to borrow another caliper to see what's what and then I'll know for certain. As for the bow I was using the other night... my Conquest by Mathews did the deed. It's the older unit, made in 1998, but shoots as well as any other I have tried. I have others that get some play, but I always take the Mathews for the seasons first harvest. I also have a few quality recurves with flemish strings that are a joy to shoot too. Too bad I didn't know as much about reloading as I do about bows, arrows and the like. Hey, if you ever have archery related questions, traditional or otherwise, feel free to ask. I can help there.

Hey, We got another thing in common, I've got an SQ2.
Does the dial on your caliper rotate? I've got a RCBS(Made of plastic)that the whole face rotates, I'm sure all of the dial calipers do that, is that something you checked? Got to go, Jay

Very nice indeed... kudos to Mathews. I have owned about everything from PSE, Darton, Hoyt, (I liked their Defiant Supreme from 1995), Martin, more Hoyt's, and finally the Mathews. I could buy another bow, and sure would like their new line with riser dampeners, but the one I have is such a quiet killer. Bucks on the wall, turkey fans, more antlers on the cedar ammo chest in the "guy room" here at the house... you know, it's a Mathews. I have a fairly long draw, which is why I shoot the Conquest. The ATA is 41" and the brace hovers around 7.25 depending on the draw weight. Personally, at 6'1" 190# (if I leave the Reese cups alone), pulling 62 pounds is a breeze. Add the 31.5 inch draw with a pultruded carbon shaft, 35 grain outsert mated to a Wolverine 3P mechanical that tips the scales at 75 more, gives about 11% FOC on an arrow that zips silently along at around 270 fps. Shoots like a dart, hits like a coal truck and very rarely doesn't bury itself in the ground for numerous inches after visiting the contents of a deers rib cage. Ok, ok, this ain't the archery forum, sorry about that. Anyway, I loaded the rounds, (3 powder charges with the 120's), and will be leaving to shoot groups in about, oh, 5 minutes. I figured out the OAL issue I had, in that it was operator head space error. I read the caliper wrong, which I contribute to sleep deprivation. The finished OAL I have, after seating the bullet .010 off the lands, is, (drum roll...), reading 2.755. Nice. I'll post the group size results when I get back. I just bought a beautiful Parker Hale in .243 yesterday and will need some suggested loads for it. I know where a fall turkey flock has been giving me fits for about a week and I'd like to ruin their day if they refuse to come to my call. Fall birds, gotta love them when they hang up at 70 yards day after day... NOT. A good starting deer load for my son would be nice too... he's almost 12 and will be ready to hunt this upcoming season. GTG make noise, report to follow...

Jolly, I should've known it was the "nut" behind the trigger You should get some decent groups with your load.
Did I see that your using them old pultruded carbons, I've got some Carbon-tech Rhinos, 11 gpi, very tough arrow, shot one into a brick wall at 14yds.(Again, nut behind the trigger), lost the insert and point and the nock came flying back at me, but the arrow remained intact, no damage whatsoever, well, Carbon-tech said it could be done, Done it! Now I got to get out and find a good place to hunt, I'm not sure if there's many deer in Wis. Had one across the road Friday, running around the neighbors yards, Ma! Where's my bow? The woods is like 600yds away, confused deer I suppose. Jay

Hey Lucy! I'm Ho-Ome! Yep, I was the loose nut that was in need of a math lesson. The verdict is in... 41.0 grains of Varget pushing a 120 grainer at a distance of 100 yards yields groups just under 3/4 inch, outside to outside. Center to center on the group is closer to 1/2 inch. Very light recoil too, should be perfect for my little woman. (Heck, I kind of like it too...) I did try 42.5 and 43.5 as well with the same bullet combo, but the wind had picked up greatly and it wouldn't be fair to judge their printings. To be honset, I feel that the rounds loaded with 41 even grains of Varget would have gone nearly into the same hole if it wasn't for the wind. Just for S&G's, I hammered some shots at 300 yards to check bullet drop. The paper read 11" from my 100 yard zero. Not bad. Anyway, that's a done deal and I am greatful for all the advice.

Hey Jay, as for the bow stuff...I've not tried the Rhino's, but I did have some 3D selects that were the same style, you know, internal component carbons that are all the rave. They were a bit light, so I got some full length weighted inserts that were offered specifically for hunting applications. Well, I tried them, and can say that the only benefit was fletching clearance. I spanked an 8 pointer on the first Wednesday of bow season last year and only recovered half of the arrow. The rest splintered into never-never land I guess. Ah, and I too have cranked a concrete block wall, but with a pultruded shaft. I was in my basement, goofing around with a paper tuner I built and was setting up a new bow with a back tension release. (AKA - stan). I was drawing the bow and pulled, which caused the bow to fire at about 7/8 of full draw. Kerrrr-ashhh, right into the block wall from about 5 yards. Much to my surprise, the arrow shaft was unharmed! The outsert captures the end of the shaft and prohibited it from expanding. I have killed deer with them since 1996 and have often used the same shaft to take two deer in the same season. I tell my buddies who are against carbon to try that with aluminum. The nock system I use is internal, made by AFC Gametracker and causes no launching issues. Those nocks are no longer made, but I have a friend who bought all the stock at the local bow shop, so I'm hooked up for a good while. I like bow hunting a great deal and will always try to fill both tags with the stick and string. The arrow I used to shoot the deer last week was wiped off and is back in my quiver, ready to go. I like guns too and will have a good time shooting the deer to fill the tag(s) that my bow doesn't get into range. Got vension? I do. You just move there Jay? I would guess there is some decent hunting nearby... give me a call and we'll go run a couple through eh? Good deal.

Jolly, I kinda figured that 41grs. of Varget would do the trick, remember I told you I use 40.3grs. of H4895, and that's a slightly faster burning powder, same with my 6mmRem. 1/2gr. more of Varget than H4895 gives me the same results, glad it worked out for you, my 708 is my favorite rifle, thing is just a tack driver.

No, I've been living here all my life, except for a 11yr. stint in the USAF, we gots alot of deer, too many deer, bu-koo deer, just to lazy to get out and just do it.

I do have another question about bowshooting, When I'm sighting on my target with the bow pulled back and no arrow in the rest, I can put the pin on my spot with no problem, RE:no panic, when I get the arrow in the rest, I want to just let the arrow go as soon as I get it near the spot, and I end up not coming that close most of the time, how do I get rid of this panic when the arrow is in the rest? Keep practicing with a arrow in and not letting it go, or with no arrow in, what? HELP! Jay

Ahh yes... I was there long ago, it's called TP, (don't like to utter those grusome words, "Target Panic"), but admit it is a common affliction with archery. Basically, it is a fear of missing your intended target, for one reason or another. Don't worry, "TP" can be cured rather quickly in a number of ways.

First off, you need to "feel" the shot. Don't worry about the impact area, just program your brain for the shot execution. Regardless of what release method you use, ie: fingers or mechanical release, you SHOULD be letting the string go during back tension. The large muscles, shoulders and in the center of your back are the ones we need to isolate. Now, imagine you are at full draw - (without your bow actually in your hand for starters), and that you have an egg, turkey, chicken, ostrich, whatever you like, trapped high in the middle of your back between your shoulder blades. Now, without moving your release hand or fingers, focus on the back muscles that would be required to "Pull through the shot" and break that egg. Practice for that feel... break the egg, break the egg, break the egg. Can we break the egg by punching on a trigger or snap shooting when we get near the bullseye? Nope. Break the egg. Practice for muscle memory in breaking that egg with you shoulder blades and visualize pulling through the shot. Got it? Break the egg, break the egg. Good, now lets shoot a few.

Stand in front of your backstop at about 7 yards. No target, just the backstop. Nock an arrow, come to full draw and execute a shot not "on command" with your fingers, but with your back muscles, breaking the egg. You should be surpised when the shot goes off. Your brain should not be saying "NOW" to make that shot happen. Break the egg. Practice this until you can feel the shot properly. Break the egg, break the egg, break the egg. Got it? Break the egg. Good.

Now place a paper plate on your backstop. Don't make a bullseye, just a plain paper plate. Move back to 7 yards and nock an arrow. Come to full draw and hold your sight pin on the plate. No brain commands should be going on here... you are simply letting your sight pin float around on the plate. Now feel for the shot, begin to increase the tension in the back muscles you used to break the egg. Keep pulling with those muscles... pull the shoulder blades together while you aim... keep pulling, pulling, pull - POW! The shot goes off while 99% of your attention was on the plate. That's kewl. That's what you want. When you are comfortable, move back to 10 yards, then 15... and so on. You may do this in one day or it may take a bit longer, depending on how bad you want to hammer the shot when you float near the bullseye. Increase back muscle tension as you float near the bullseye or decrease tension as you float away from it. Do not try to hold vise still on the plate. Let your pin float and keep pulling to break the egg. Stay with it, and you will kick it's behind. You can gradually use smaller aiming points, but only after you have the break the egg shot programmed to memory.

In extreme cases, you can enlist the help of a friend. You have to be a release shooter for this to work. Have your buddy stand behind you with a piece of monofilament fishing line attached to your release. Your job is to aim at the target, that's all. Do this from about 7 yards and stand at full draw, with an arrow aimed at your backstop. No target, just the backstop. Your buddies job is to pull the fishing line and release the shot, WITHOUT telling you when it's going to happen. The deal here is to let you "feel" the perfect release. One that is not done on command. Your job here is only to aim. Restore good shooting form and accuracy will follow. Archery is as much a mental game as it is physical.

Here's a little problem I had, much like yours. I would shoot targets my bows from 20 to 50 yards. I would pound them with repeated excellence, BUT, when I had Mr. Whitetail in the sights, my brain would "command" the shot as the pin touched brown. Oh no... what to do? Heck, I could fire shots all day at paper and not get hinky... what's the deal? Well, the deal is picking a spot. We shoot at bullseyes. We practice this way and are usually not under pressure. Deer, on the other hand, don't come with bullseyes. So, I force myself to "pick a spot". Then, I break the egg. If you practice to break the egg... your subconcious will do it for you at the moment of truth. Break the egg. One last thing before the moderator gets after me about archery in the reloading section, (sorry all), I have a decal on the inside of my upper limb that simply says, "AIM". Now I know that sounds funny, but when you have all the big issues to worry about... when he comes into the shooting lane, how far is he? is he quartering on? will he see me draw? is that branch an issue? you know, all that stuff, that little reminder keeps me picking a spot. Crunch... break the egg and put that carbon shaft through both of his lungs. Nice. Hey Jay, email me at mrknbobi@charter.net if you need anything on the bow, tuning, arrow building, you know, the works.

Thanks for the help Mark, I'll work on it, Break the egg! Jay

I killed a forkhorn Saturday evening with the 120 Barnes XBT in my 7-08 at 100 yds. or less. I blew my first shot. He was bedded in the grass under a bush and I tried to hit him in the chest. I broke his leg and just clipped the bottom of his chest. He jumped up and miraculously popped out of the brush over to the left. I hit him just below the spine through the lungs and he disappeared in a dust cloud. Funny thing was when I found him there was no evidence of an entrance hole. There was a good 2" exit hole on the other side.

This was first blood on this rifle. I am using 49 gr. of W760, Rem. brass and WLR primers. It doesn't group that well and I am going to try Varget after season is over. Velocities are below expectations also averaging about 2800 fps. Recoil is relatively light and you can't argue with venison in the freezer.

How far did he go after shot number 2? I would lean heavily to the Varget powder, after seeing what it did in my 7mm-08. Can you say "tight groups boys and girls?" Mr. Rogers says I knew ya could. Just for fun and after the season is over, I'm going to try some loads with R-15 and 4895. Heck, from what I've read, I'll probably need a better scope to see the center of the bull more clearly. The Varget already acts like it can stack one on the other and the other powders come just as highly recommended.

Marc, If you want better accuracy, I'd try some 120, 140, or 150 Ballistic tips, or some 139SSTs over some RE15, or Varget, the 150BTs work wonderfully in my rifle and on deer also, last doe I shot was double lunged, ran about 120yds. before she piled up, blood trail a blind man could see, I've used 760 with 150BTs, but the accuracy wasn't there either, pulled like 60 some bullets and worked up a load with Varget starting with 39.5grs. up to 41grs., my first group had 2 in the exact same hole, and one an inch away, that was probably me since I wasn't used to shooting the higher recoiling 708, mainly shoot 223, 6mm, and 22-250 varmint rifles, after a 5 shot verifying test I worked it down to .460", 3 of the shots were in a group that measured .168", I'll buy that for a dollar.

Jolly, What do you have for a scope on your rifle, anyway? Jay

Jay, I use the rifle for rifle silhouette and it shoots into 3/4" with Remington 140 PSPCL's. It also has done well with Speer 145 BT's and 120 Hornady's. I just really like the X-bullets for hunting as I have had excellent results with them. I also hunt in the California Condor recovery area. The US Fish and Wildlife service is encouraging hunters to use non lead bullets as they have had some condors die or get sick from lead poisoning. The condors presumably get the lead from eating deer carcasses or gut piles left by hunters. I doubt if that presumption is completely correct but if it is a problem I would like to avoid adding fuel to the fire. The USFS is also offering a $15 rebate this year to hunters using non lead bullets. So anyway I am committed to the X-bullets for hunting and next year will use my .264 WM which shoots just fine with X-bullets and is my all time favorite deer killing rifle.

Hey there Jay. I bought Bushnell's Dusk to Dawn 3X9 for the wifes rifle the day I picked it up. Everything, including the little Model 7 was new off the shelf last month. I looked through that scope today and even though the gun was intended just for hunting deer, I wished: (a) I bought the gun for myself, (b) I bought a more powerful scope so I could shoot it at stuff really hard to see after hunting season, or (c) I should have got that 50 BMG and been done with it.

The answer is uh, er... A & B. I just can't get over how well the little 08 shoots. Impressive, much like my Mauser in the accuracy department but more shooter friendly, absent of punishing recoil. Man, I just like it alot. The scope is "ok" for what it is, under a bill *cha ching* for a 9X. I live and hunt here in central PA and for most, a 3X9 is adequate. Now there are places one can stretch barrels... but I don't have anything that shoots a mile. A couple co-workers do, but I can't justify the cost of the ammo, nor do I go for the recoil induced headaches that follow their shooting sessions. Naw, just ain't for me bud.

The glass I have on the old .270 maxes at 16X, which makes bullet placement at the rare 300 yard deer harvest much more confident. I don't shoot above my ability and 300 yards is where I draw the line for live game in hunting conditions. Personally I would rather have Mr. Big Head at give 'er take 20 yards and my bow already at full draw. That Parker Hale I just bought in .243 has a really old Redfield 4X16 on it that is as nice as the day it was bolted down. I haven't shot it yet, but plan to this weekend. Loads... loads... what loads eh? I got dies, I got 6mm in 100 and 85's... I got Varget, and some Varget, and did I mention Varget? I got others too, IMR, stuff like that... and some more stuff too.

I am shooting my guns more than I have in years and enjoy the rifles a great deal. In fact, I just sighted in a little .223 tonight for my son, who is now 11 years old. We used factory R-P 55 grain SP's and they did real well. I bought them to reload so it didn't really matter what they did. The little NE single has a brick like trigger and looks a bit odd with a 3X9X50 glued on top, but is does gather a ton of light when the sun dips low. Young Master D will be old enough to hunt next year and I'm hoping to get him shooting 10X's this weekend. Bullet placement with such a small caliber is paramount to even consider it for whitetails, so he's got his work cut out for him. Even if we don't use it for deer, he'll still benefit from the range time. Hey Jay, you got loads for them thar calibers I mentioned and stuff? I know ya do... c'mon buddy... give 'em up. One last thing... did you gather up a .17 caliber yet? I'm smoking some turkey with one next week, just wait and see.

Mark, For the 243, I'd try around 40grs. of IMR or H4350, give or take a half grain, with a 100gr. bullet, actually 40grs. is the max with H4350, 40.5 is the max with IMR4350, but I'd consult with bullet manufacturer for exact max loads, Ah, the 223Rem., Just shot mine yesterday, I got a very good group with 24grs. Benchmark and the 55VMaxs, .313" for 4 shots and 1 flier about an inch low, this was at 200yds. I've been told the the 52AMax will work wonders on deer in the 223, so if it were me I'd try 24.3grs Benchmark under the 52AMAX, should be as accurate or slightly better than the VMax, I'd seat them anywhere from .010-.020" off the lands,, I use Win brass and primers, but Rem. brass will work too, as long as you have the brass already. I've not tried the 17 yet, as I can reload my 223 for the same price as a box of 17HMR, Hope the info helps, Jay