After a bunch of years in the Guide-outfitting business and most of my life spent around hayburners, i came to the conclusion that looking for a specific breed was fruitless.
A "package" that included conformation, good feet, attitude, and heart was the starting point.
Seldom used mares in my string, too many hassles, also probs with wild studs in the areas i hunted (east slope of the Rockies) also no studs for the same reasons.
Just happened that the best one i ever had was a Quarter/Saddlebred cross gelding, 15 HH. Smooth, tough, willing, and smart. Came at a whistle every time and brought the "crew" with him (he was boss!)
If i hadda found a dozen like him i would have got rich selling horses instead of working

Tennessee Walkers are my first love. But when I am in the mountains hunting I want a mustang. I used to have a mustang mare that was all of about maybe 14 hands and weighed in at about 850. Me and my saddle together go 260 or better. She would carry me in the mountains all day long and not stop until I stopped her. Their sense are sharpened from living on the open range and they usually know what is going on before their riders do. My friend has a mustang mare that has a lot of draft blood in her. She is so gentle that you can put a kid on her and turn them loose in the pasture and not have to worry. Makes a great baby sitter. This mare has packed out an entire elk on 1 trip. Of course it was quartered.

A Shire would be nice too.

ASS_CLOWN

We use foxtrotters in our string. They work great in the mountains and can cover some ground. We do not hunt from the horse, but use them as transportation and for packing.

Gaited horses are great for this kind of stuff. I prefer Foxtrotters over Walkers beacause Walkers stride out so much that when you find yourself leading them down a narrow trail they will walk all over you. It is not fun to have them step on your heal. Any time you are in real mountain country you will have to dismount and lead over certain terrain.

A quarter horse would usually have to trot to keep up with the gaited horses. Not something you want them to do while carrying a pack and going long distances.

Ever notice that all the breeders judge their breed by the quarter horse...Must be a reason for that...

Could it be that is because the quarter horse rules the competition in roping, dogging, western pleasure, race track, ranch work, cow horse competition, team roping, and a host of other events...and I have never seen a better hunting horse...they may not out walk some breeds, but they don't fall all over themselves either...

I like mules for pack animals.

Or else it is because they are less expensive and there are more of them.

hello;
Hell, modern Western Breeds are Quarter Horses or colored Quarter Horses. The conformation standards are the same.
Grizz

Absolutely correct. Life has enough pitfalls without getting on a horse that you know is potentially dangerous!

I always take my rope horses hunting, it gives them a chance to get out and relax the mind from the arena..All of them were ranch raised and used to drag cattle to the fire, so its just a back home vacation for them and me..they are all quarter horses, and I am a dyed in the wool fan of that breed, there is no other in my opinnion, albiet there are really some nice paint horses out there, but they have a lot of quarter blood in them......I suppose a good horse is a good horse in most any breed and a dink is a dink...

Ray, there are times when I miss a good quarter horse. The strength they have to climb hills is un-matched.

But that same muscle mass is why I quit using them. I do too many 25 and 50 miler Competitive Trail Rides and Endurance rides in the summer. Those heavy muscled quarter horses just can't get rid of the heat like a lighter horse does. They over heat and they are done. Then I had the luck of always stone bruising their feet.

If I was working in an arena on soft footing or for shorter pleasure rides, they would be my choice. Calm, sensible, powerful. Hard to beat.

There are other horses out there that are breed to cover distance. It's like asking a pro football line backer to run the Boston Marathon. Sure he is phyically fit and probably can complete the event. But he won't be competitive or enjoy the race. He just not built for it.

Thoroughbreds have the biggest heart of any breed. So big they don't know when to stop. Adding them as a cross adds quite a lot to the stamina of the animal. Hopefully in doing so you end up with better brains, so to speak from the other side of the breeding.

My best horse was a big TB gelding, he was all heart and soul. Once he learned to trust me there wasn't much he would not do if I asked. It took three years of solid work to get him to that point. We won a lot of races and jumping events. He knew how to hunt for fox and how to work a pack of hounds.

Ann,
I have owned a number of T breds and I also find them excellent horses and the running quarter horse is very high in T bred blood....

For Mountains and ranch work however I never like a Quarter horse and T Bred cross as that gives you a small boned horse with a lot of heavy muscle and they break down in the legs early in life...My family tried that cross and went back to straight quarter horses for ranch work...

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there are times when I miss a good quarter horse.

Me too but then I take a breath and sqeeze the trigger again. I once saw a book called "101 uses for your QH" and thought it was a recipe book.

But seriously folks.....we raised Arabians for 20 years or so. Great breed, healthy, hearty, good feet and legs. I never saw such problems until I met my wife and saw what stock breeds were like. She's a died in the wool QH and Paint gal. Her family was involved with these breeds from the beginnings of their assocoations. Of course I had to tell her that if my family made the same claim with the Arabian breed I would be about 3000 years old.

We finally agreed we could agree on Paints so we have been back in the horse game for about 5 years with Paints and they are ok. Not much personality by comparison to Arabians. The best part of the Paints are the people we meet involved with the paint horses, clubs and shows. Most have been as nice as can be.

I think there is a place for any breed. All have something they excel at. Some are good at it all. But all the breeds I have been around were able to do what they were bred for....in general. There are scrubs in every breed.

"There are other horses out there that are breed to cover distance. It's like asking a pro football line backer to run the Boston Marathon. Sure he is phyically fit and probably can complete the event. But he won't be competitive or enjoy the race. He just not built for it."

Seems like common sense, but strap a 100 pounds to each of them and then see who gives out first.

Well my vote goes to the original American working horse, the Morgan. I use Western Working Morgans. Where do you think Quarter horses came from? There's Morgan blood in them. Like gaited horses? There's gaited Morgans too. Like em small? Get a Vermont Morgan, Big, Western Working, 15 to 16 hands. They will ride, work a cow, pack, drive, in a word versatile. They outlive Quarter horses too.

Everyone is right though, any breed can have an outstanding examples or deadheads.

Please understand that I believe any breed can have a few individuals that can perform exceptionally well at distance riding. And I'm not talking about the "Mind" of the horse. Which plays a lot into how easy they are to handle, train and their work ethic. But I've had the opportunity see hundreds of horses cover thousands of miles over the last 10 years. And I make my comments based up what I saw various breeds do in long distance riding.

I have competed in Competitive Trail and endurance rides for many years. And have Sponsored/Managed a Competitive Trail Ride /Endurance ride for the past 4 years. I see 100-120 riders show up from all over the west. The CTR riders cover 20-25 miles in a day the endurance riders go 50 miles.

There are many people just like me who throw all 200lbs of their fat butt plus saddle and gear up on their horse for a 50 mile ride. Those horses are packing 250-260 lbs for the distance.

We have Vets checking the horses frequently through out the rides. Score cards are turned in showing what the Vets observed. As the ride manager I have to compile and send off the ride reports, I see which breeds do and don't handle that kind of stress.

Arabs and Arab/crosses Dominate the endurance races. But that's 50 miles in 5-6 hours. So lets ignor that sport for the moment and look at Competitive Trail Ride.

CTR riders will cover 20-25 miles in 8 hours. A much more realistic pace for a trail horse. In CTR all horses are expected to cover the same distance in the same speed ( Kinda like a road rally, too fast or slow and you're out of the game) So I can eliminate that variable of somebody wearing out his horse because he pushed it too hard. And unlike Endurance CTR riders have to ride the entire trail, no getting off and jogging along side the horse to save the horse.

So all horses complete the same course in the same time. So the main variables are, the metabolic make up of the horse, and the conditioning. When I compile the scorecards at the end of weekend I see certian breeds just dominating the performance? Arabs again do very well even with 200lbs riders on them all day. Gaited horses do very well. There is an occassional QH or TB that does well. But in general their Vet checks just don't compare to the lighter bred horses. Their riders are always struggling to get their horses pulse to come down at the vet checks.

I look at 3-4 vet scorecards per horse per day and see the lighter breeds with Pulse & Respiration at 3-4 beats compared to 12-14 beats for the QH. Hydration, Capillary refill, and other statistics all show a huge difference.

The CTR ride I put on starts at 8200 foot elevation and covers over 10,000 foot of elevation change in the 8 hours. It's a serious mountain ride. I started out with Paints and QH and while they would complete the ride, their low vet scores took me right out of the competition. So I switched to Arabs and Foxtrotters so I could compete. It just happens that a 25 trail ride is pretty similar to good elk hunt. A lot of ups and downs at high elevation.

Granted my horses are not the right horses for working cows, They are not going to compete with QH or TB on the race track. But they sure can get me from my truck to a remote camp site or follow a herd of elk over the ridge to the next drainage.

Painted Horse - Perhaps it was your example of the linebacker running the marathon against the lighter wiry runner that struck me funny

Turn it around and it's still funny. Wiry guy against the linebacker in the football game

When I said add a hundred pounds and see how they do I meant to the humans. Both could carry it and both wouldn't be overloaded, well maybe the wiry guy. Change the controlled conditions and it's a whole other marathon.

That was my point, no offence meant

Out on the trail there are no controlled conditions. I like a horse with muscle and good bone so they aren't fragile, to get through mud bogs and snow, sturdy. I may not get there as fast as some, but I'll always get there and back.

Heck I love just being out there

No offence taken, just comparing opinions.

One of the problems I had with some of my early paints was their feet. They've bred them right off the horses. My Foxtrotter all have BIG feet and big cannon bones. Like you I want to get home.

I rarely do endurance rides any more. If I do it's just to see the country, my Foxtrotters will finish just fine, but not place. And if I'm just going for a ride to see some country why pay a $75 entry fee?

My daughters have assumed ownership of my Arab cross horses. They still have a need for speed. And I feel too beat up after riding them for 50 miles.

Painted,
The title of this thread was what do you like on the trail, however the question was for outfitting. On a hunt give me a well trained 10-14 year old QH gelding with a big rear end to get me up the mountains and the temperment to take a swarm of bees or nearby mountain lion in stride. However, for just riding the mountain trails I'm with you, give me a well breed, trained and conditioned Russian Orlov Trotter or Akhal-Teke and I'm in heaven.

Hello Guys

I've ridden a lot in the mountains here, mostly with two guys who made the back country and horses "their life". Their advice was to look for a type (optimum physique and temperament, as many have suggested above) that someone else is riding, then get something from that bloodline. Actual breed is not so important, but the bloodline is as it is the carrier of the characteristics you need, rather that the broader objective of a breed.

Here we like the finer lines of Quarterhorses, (often a first or second cross with our NZ type thoroughbreds) that are favoured by cutting and other performance folks, rather that the heavier time event horses.

Cheers - Foster

a little insite...

FoX trotter...
1/4 horse-T bred-walker-morgan...

they were bred for law enforcment in the appalchian mtns. Bred fro stamina, quick walking, smooth ride...

toughest horse around is a true mustang... we have a few of them and they really have no rival for overall work ethic...

we buy our horses based on their ability to climb and stamina... not all of them have it...

1/4 horses great but not all are suited for the hills...

my personal horse "Dusty" ( kills me but is about to be retired ) is a 1/4 horse/foxtrotter mutt of sorts... has a heart as big as Wyo. and a kind attitude.. ( he a boss though )

there is no reall perfect horse breed for the mtns.. really come down to the individual horse as was mentioned at the start of this thread...

we have everything from Mustangs to paper t-breds... they each fill a niche....

I have a mare I've been riding and she's broke to leg and foot cues, shift in weight.... kinda neet to ride without hands .... especially when pulling a string.... never been a real fan of mares in the hills except for keeping the boys close.. but she is starting to win my heart.... I know I shoudn't let her.. cause it almost moves me to tears to think of mtn. pounding without Dusty....( he won my heart too ) but she has a nack for winding through the trails... she's only commin' 6 so time will tell...

My vote is gonna be for the Morgan, because I have one (only one), my riding horse, he's been in the mountains all his life, I've only had him for 5 years, but he is about the best trail horse of the few horses myself and my buddies have, we always use him as lead horse because he can move on those mountain trails...

I suppose the bottom line is the horse, regardless of breed, I would pick one I liked and one thats tough, won't cheat me, won't stop, and is solid broke...If that one won't work for you then nothing will...

I like horses of any breed if they are good horses, thats all I require, but my favorite will always be the quarter horse, and quarter horses today come in all shapes and sizes, take your pick.