I have been following this thread on my old Oregon hunting and fishing forum, ifish.net. I know y'all can't see any of the photos without registering, but thought some here might get a kick out of reading about the challenges and the progress this fellow is making as he tries to break these critters.
I had not heard of the Lyon method, but understand John Lyon has quite a following among the natural horse breakers.

https://www.ifish.net/board/sh...6305415#post16305415

He must e a burro whisperer.

quote:

Originally posted by craigster:
He must e a burro whisperer.

We would call him a donkey whisperer.

Grizz

the thing you have to think about with donkys is that they cant run as fast as horses. therfore, they go from flight to fight much quicker. this changes the game in so many ways.

There are various Facebook groups that give info on this and what some of these people can do is amazing. They are incredible creatures, donkeys.
Edit: Youtube has lots of info too. I have bought a couple of young Catalan Donkeys and plan to work them in time, but they are at least tame to start with.

Both of my parents retired from the BLM, and were heavily involved in the feral horse and donkey auctions in the 1990's-early 2000's.

I had been in the Navy for 7 or 8 years and I came home to find half a dozen long ears that they had to repatriate, and my Dad ended up with them for about 10 or 15 months before they could be readopted.

They are wonderful animals. Not flighty like a feral horse.

Everyone of them was like owning a puppy with hooves. I thought they were really fun.

A donkey or burro is incredibly easy to break, and slow but sure to train..Every ranch kid on the Texas border had a donkey to play with, they are basically gentle animals, just stubborn. I never found much use for them but always had one around..They are great for training a heel horse for team roping, and make good pets..A trained heel horse donkey will fetch a good price in the Team roping circles, and hard to come by..Ive trained a few, its a matter of them trotting a ways and turning left, then stopping when you catch the heels, its slow and creates good timing, great for teaching a beginner to heel..

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
A donkey or burro is incredibly easy to break, and slow but sure to train..Every ranch kid on the Texas border had a donkey to play with, they are basically gentle animals, just stubborn. I never found much use for them but always had one around..They are great for training a heel horse for team roping, and make good pets..A trained heel horse donkey will fetch a good price in the Team roping circles, and hard to come by..Ive trained a few, its a matter of them trotting a ways and turning left, then stopping when you catch the heels, its slow and creates good timing, great for teaching a beginner to heel..

Up until a few years ago, I had my pet donkey, Steve, to help breaking in new heal horses. Donkeys are even better than a lead steer for a heel horse IMHO.

Ive used donkeys for teaching colts to lead just neck a colt to a donkey and they will pull him around, and it the colt fights and gets sideways the donkey will kick him until he pulls straight, in 4 or 5 days to a week the colts will be broke to lead..I had a 14 hands, 850 lb., and mostly all legs, mammoth Jack one time that I broke to ride, he was hell on earth and meaner than sin, but when he gave up the ghost he never bucked again and was the kids pet. He was fantastic in the rocks and rimrocks to hunt deer on, and pack deer out, He was a deer bird dog, in that he would spot deer and bray, and he was as fast as a slow horse chasing a cow..He lived to be over 50 and put a lot of mule colts on the ground..Im not much on mules and donkeys, but they do have their place.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Ive used donkeys for teaching colts to lead just neck a colt to a donkey and they will pull him around, and it the colt fights and gets sideways the donkey will kick him until he pulls straight, in 4 or 5 days to a week the colts will be broke to lead..I had a 14 hands, 850 lb., and mostly all legs, mammoth Jack one time that I broke to ride, he was hell on earth and meaner than sin, but when he gave up the ghost he never bucked again and was the kids pet. He was fantastic in the rocks and rimrocks to hunt deer on, and pack deer out, He was a deer bird dog, in that he would spot deer and bray, and he was as fast as a slow horse chasing a cow..He lived to be over 50 and put a lot of mule colts on the ground..Im not much on mules and donkeys, but they do have their place.

I don’t like mules either. I do remember the old folks saying that settling the country in Texas where I’m from wasn’t so bad for men and mules but hell on women and horses.
Funny mule deal, when I was about 14, great uncle so and so died and he left me in his will two big unbroke Appy mules. What a circus. Best part is, I managed to not get killed, put a few rides on them and sold them to a guy to pack salt that loved them.
Those horrible mules looking back may have been one of the biggest motivators to go off and get an education, LOL.

Im sure in my mind that the good Lord put mules on this earth to punish cowboys for their evil ways!!!

I very much admire the modern mule trainers, in the US in particular. They are breeding riding mules that are finer boned than the old type and get them to do incredible things.
Some Youtube searching of such things has fascinated me.

Yes they have come a long ways..Yesteryear ranchers bred their worst mares for mules, today they breed good registered mares to get mule colts, however im not sure going for finer bone is what you need, as it weakens a mule for rough county etc..I like a mule for hunting or getting up in the rimrocks to herd goats an to use in a slick rock or shale slide pasture, but you can't breed a mule to run and catch a calf or get wild cattle to the pen, they just are not good at that, They are not a horse in speed and disposition..Ive always had a saddle mule or two, but for a specific purpose...I suspect my opinion will make a mule owner go insane, it usually does! but most real cowboys will agree with me..Mules are accepted but not chosen by most cowboys.

I cannot argue with that.
However, I am attempting to breed a mule with a Catalan jack and some solid mix-breed mares.
For fun and sentimental reasons, if not for practicality.

I have a picture of a mule I broke, with me in the saddlel and two Javalina hanging on each side of the cantle and two more hanging behind the saddle, and I could hang a deer over in my lap and ride to the house or camp..

If anyone can post pictures I can send a copy to your email to post here, but I can't post on AR..

Awesome photo Ray!

That photo was taken at least 60 years ago, ON the way back to the house I shot a 4x4 buck, and added him to my lap and went to the house..Mules are strong, sure footed, and a good one is hard to find, but this one was my pet and lived to be 32 years old. He would spot or smell a deer in a canyon and braw everytime, just like rideing a bird dog.

That’s a great pic taken in good country.

quote:

Originally posted by Grizzly Adams1:

quote:

Originally posted by craigster:
He must e a burro whisperer.

We would call him a donkey whisperer.

Grizz

He would be talking to his ass as opposed to out of it.

I mostly wanted Bill to see this, he's is the mule man, I much prefer horses, but when the country is rim rocks and rock canyons or slick rock an unshod mule sure comes in handy..I like them for hunting, but if Im cowboying, even in rough country give me a good horse so I can get thejob done..

No cows to chase and never learned to rope but I switched from horses to mules for riding in the hills and hunting in places like Hells Canyon. This is my current animal. Copper is out of a well bred registered quarter horse mare nd a good sized standard jack that a friend used to have. Several of us have mules out of this jack and they all have good minds and are great in the mountains. I had Copers half sister who was out a Morgan mare and the same jack and when your butt hit the saddle, you better be ready to go because she was ready to move! Elsie was one of the fastest walking mules I ever saw and even though she was only 850-900 pounds there was no quit in that little girl.

Magnificent looking mule. On my bucket list!

She is a dandy, I wouldn't mind having her..They are the best for hunting and for rough country, and they have that mule gait, like riding on a cloud and can they ever cover a lot of country..They have their place in scheme of things..As a kid my brother, cousins ands some close friends broke mules all year, finished them in time to go elk hunting in the Willomennoche (sp?) Wilderness of Colorado. Went in at the Chimney Rock Store..Hunted until everyone killed an elk Dad and uncles and old timer friends an us kids...When we came out the outfitters bid on our mules and we sold them all for top dollar every year. That was in the late 1940s and early 1`950s or there abouts my best guess...Boy howdy did we tough it, no tents but big tarps to cover our beds and brush wind breaks, got home and picked out our 3 year old for next years elk hunt, talked about blessed, can't imagine growing up any other way..

A mule doesn't last long in the bunch a guys I ride with if it can not step right out and walk at a good clip. While this one isn't quite as fast as her little half Morgan sister I had, she is fast enough and has a quick step that will put you to sleep it is so comfortable. Just like there are lazy people and horses, there are lazy mules and those go to homes that don't need to head back to camp that is 5-6 miles away an hour after dark in Hells Canyon.

What is a good mule bringing up your way? I might be interested..

Ray, a good one will run a person $5000-$10,000. That is for one that knows their way around the mountains, crosses bridges, rivers and takes a pack. A guy can always find one cheaper but like anything else, it is a roll of the dice.

Whew thats pretty high compared to my Mule days..I was expecting about $2500 to 3000..Wish I was a just a tad younger, Id be breaking and training some mules during the summer months..I brought a number of mules to Idaho 40 years ago and sold them to the USFS...Sounds like I might need one more 3 year old to work with if I can find one with a good disposition...An unbroke mule shouldn't bring much, nobody these days wants to break horses or mules and many of those don't do a very good job anymore. Seems they spend more time in the bar than making wet saddle blankets..

Zebrazapper,
That country you refer to was on the Ben english ranch just out of LaJitas, Tx, next to the Big Bend National Park on one side and Mexico on the other, and all of Texas to the North! about 60 years ago, maybe more!

There was a guy in Santa Ynez, California in the 1970s who used to raise and train roping mules. They were the smartest working rides that I ever saw.

As a teenage cowboy working the local ranches I was really impressed with them.

Ray, I finally came back to this thread and noted your photo, complete with javelinas. Wonderful.
My late Uncle Paul Doe was a Morgan man first, but loved his mules for packing in and out of Hells Canyon and in the Strawberry Mountains of northeast Oregon. One time on a pack trip into the Eagle Cap Wilderness in Oregon's Wallowa Mountains, Uncle Paul rigged me up some stirrups of bailing twine on a Decker pack saddle and I got to go on a ride with him and his good friend Tom Berry. Old Hannah was surefooted and sweetly cooperative with this greenhorn on her back.
Wish I had a photo of that rig.
I have such great memories of that trip. We were camped next to a stream full of 8-inch brook trout for daily breakfast and had a nice big wall tent to sleep in.
In the evening, we sat around the fire sipping Tang and Canadian whiskey sno-cones and I would listen to Paul and Tom tell stories of the horse and mule wrecks they had either seen or survived. Do such men as these still reside on this planet in the year of our Lord 2021?

kAROO,
Before you start your breeding program keep in mind based on your post you cannot breed a mule to a Jack or visa versa..

You can breed a stud mule to a mare to get a mule colt or you can breed a stud horse to a Jenny and you will get a Henney, a pretty animal with nicer head and long mane and tale and smaller than a mule and shorter ears, and most Ive delt with were meaner than sin as a rule, but once broke they are neat little animals,I actually like the Henny once you get their attention..

Bill,
Yes they do, but they are not many..The big bend country of Texas on the Rio grande, and in Mexico still supports such men and their are mules to be had but well broke mules are hard to come by and I suspect where you live in southern NM their may be a few, and on the arizona border across from Mexico perhaps...A good mule these days will fetch $10,000 Im told and Ive seen them priced for over $4500. Outfitters and packers still use them..

I sold my last mules to the USFS for about $6000 as I recall..They were broke and solid..

Thanks Ray.
Yes, my post should have read "I want to breed a mule from from my Catalan jack and horse mares"
We tried a mating this fall but suspect that the jack is a little young and will try again in spring, which is later this month for us. One of my mares is a very athletic pure Arab and hopefully we will produce a relatively athletic riding mule.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
kAROO,
Before you start your breeding program keep in mind based on your post you cannot breed a mule to a Jack or visa versa..

You can breed a stud mule to a mare to get a mule colt or you can breed a stud horse to a Jenny and you will get a Henney, a pretty animal with nicer head and long mane and tale and smaller than a mule and shorter ears, and most Ive delt with were meaner than sin as a rule, but once broke they are neat little animals,I actually like the Henny once you get their attention..

A couple of pointers!! South Texas mares are bred with Burros from Mexico, gives one a smaller togher mule, the mustang of the border region so to speak, hot blooded and harder headed...Today the good quarter horse or throughbred to a Mamouth Jack gives you a larger colt and more desirable disposition plus they can manuver better in the Pacific NW in blow down timber, the texas mule gets around much better in the rocks, todays mules are better bred than mules of yesteryear..An interesting animal for sure..I have a lot of mule stories!