We are moving to New zealand next year, and we will have horses obviously, i whould like a horse to acces open ground and scree slopes on the milder slopes of the mountains, where 4x4s are just not able to go and helicopter is the usual way in, and to do it on foot whould be very dificult with the amount of gear needed for a long trip.
I am experienced with horses and i know that it could be done quicker by choper etc, but i want to go in this way like as part of the experience of the hunt itself.
One thing i am a little woried about is the horse getting shot there is an eliment in NZ that are a little careless with thair lead distribution they do get quite a few deaths from hunting shootings each year in the bush and in the deer roar. a brightly colloured blanket may be the answer here.
severe weather will obviously stop me wqanting to venture in to these areas with a horse, but with the weather reasonable and a suitable horse can you see ant dificulties i may encounter with this idea. and what choice of horse whould be best i thought about a pony mabe a welsh mountain or an exmoor type pony or mabe even a mule,i have never hunted with a horse before in my life. what are you thoughts on these issues please.

quote:

the amount of gear needed for a long trip.
I am experienced with horses

What you need to learn is how to "pack" a horse/mule. That is what most of us outfitters who travel into the wilderness and such places do here to get our equipment into our camps. Most of our camps encompass 7-12 tents ranging from a 10'X10'to 12'X20'. We also pack in several large cooking and heating wood burning stoves, 40lb. propane tanks and just about anything else you would need for an outfitted camp.
The hard part for you would be learning to do this. I wouldn't recommend doing it alone the first time without having someone there who knows what they are doing. The "art" of packing horses/mules is just that, an art. You have to have all your loads weighed within a pound or 2 so that things ride well. The pack saddles alone are much much different than a riding saddle.
What you are trying to do is darn near a requirement in my neck of the words and there are alot of excellent packers in my part of the country. So it can without question be done. However, learning to do it and do it well. That take a bit of time. Getting your stock trained to pack alone can take a month or 2 not including the time needed for you to learn how to do it.
Not sure where you are from. I would be willing to take you on one of our trips to help you learn but I am not sure that would be feasable for ya.

Forget the horse - get a mule.

StagWolf, we use mules for packing equipment and meat out of the mountains on elk and mule deer hunts. The horses we ride are Quarter horses at a walk, trot will break your backside a bunch.

It will take all of 3 to 4 months to learn how to pack properly and have your animal trained well enough to get the job done. You don't want young green stock either. Our mules are 9 & 11 years old, sturdy and stand 14.3 at the withers. Our horses are 15.1 and 15.2 hands tall. They also are 7 and 8 years old, and real sure footed.....they don't spook easy. There is a lot to learn and you won't get it right the first half dozen times out the gate...TONK

Ric , should know he has a ranch and does this for a living.

Thanks for advice sorry about the delay in answering, been off the forum of late.

I've use Missouri Foxtrotters to hunt. Work well, good minds, and smooth gaits. Know several others who do same, with great results.

If you are looking for a sure footed animal with a good temperament i would suggest you look at an appaloosa. They are the only horses that were selectively bred by native Americans and were done so to encourage temperament, endurance, and intelligence.

And if nothing else, their damnable spots may prevent them from being shot by less than careful shooters.

More information can be found here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appaloosa
and for info on obtaining one in Kiwi land check here:
http://www.appaloosaassn.co.nz/

quote:

Originally posted by billinthewild:
Forget the horse - get a mule.

I knew there were some intelligent people here ). Best advice in these forums. For more info you can visit my web page @ http://members.aol.com/brayhaven/bj.htm
Read "All Mules go to Heaven" about mule character and "Make mine a mule" about mule ability.. before you make an arbitrary decision
Greg Sefton

Horse, mule or pony really doesn't make a difference. As long it serves your needs and you get along.

There are several horse "supply" places that sell horse gear that is hunter orange. My favorite is Outfitters Supply. They have a website but I am too lazy to look it up.

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They are the only horses that were selectively bred by native Americans and were done so to encourage temperament, endurance, and intelligence

There is an old joke, that indians rode appaloosas so they would be good and mad by the time they got to the fight.....

Appaloosas may have been for temperament, but IMO it was not good temperament. They were bred for color, that is how you get appies.

Being an Appaloosa owner and breeder, I've heard this Nez Perce BS for years. Funny thing is, if you look at old photographs, you'll see they apparently weren't as concerned about the color or breeding of their nags, as we like to think
Grizz

Easy, Griz, it was a joke.

All this talk about how one breed is more sure footed or more this or more that, than another is BS. Plain and simple. About the only thing you can sorta count on is size and conformation and that isn't guaranteed and at times a shot in the dark. You really don't know what you are going to get until you ride it and apply to it what you need and see what happens.
It cracks me up to see some of the replies...

There are good and bad horses in all breeds. I also believe there is a reason there are far more quarter horses than anything else in the western US. You won't need a registered horse, but neither will it hurt a thing to have papers. I also have nothing against a mule, as they will not get hurt as often, but require a heavier hand to train. You're not looking for a particularly athletic animal, just good minded and quiet. There are plenty of those if not ruined by a poor hand with horses.

I have had most kinds of horses in my life, and while it may not be cool in Wyoming to own gaited horses, I we have had a few.

I will tell you this, when you don't have to fight Appy, Quarter, Arab or Warm-Blood atitude, and you get the plus of the gaited trot, I can't see owning anything else.

I am kind of partial to the Ugly Norwegian Fjord horses. Kind of looks like a Zebra that had the stripes blown off by Wyoming wind.

When the Navy is done with me, I am going to build a place between outside of Fairbanks. I 5 or 6 fjords to pack out moose and caribou would be fantastic.

quote:

Originally posted by wymple:
There is an old joke, that indians rode appaloosas so they would be good and mad by the time they got to the fight.....

Nah... it was the only horse they could catch on foot

quote:

Originally posted by D99:
I have had most kinds of horses in my life, and while it may not be cool in Wyoming to own gaited horses, I we have had a few.

I will tell you this, when you don't have to fight Appy, Quarter, Arab or Warm-Blood atitude, and you get the plus of the gaited trot, I can't see owning anything else.

I am kind of partial to the Ugly Norwegian Fjord horses. Kind of looks like a Zebra that had the stripes blown off by Wyoming wind.

What's a "gaited trot"
BTW, I've worked with all those breeds & a bunch more, and in general the stock breeds (Apps, Quarters, paints, etc) have the best dispositions & intelligence, but of course there are good & bad in any breed. the gaited breeds are genrally less able to accept training & mature later since they are often bred for one physical gait that is not really a learned thing. Kind of like halter horses or race horses that really aren't "working" breeds but are bred to do one thing. Warmbloods are another group that can be good or bad. The foxhunters I know call em "dumbloods", but I've worked with some very good ones and they are great movers. People who don't get along with Arabs probably have the same problem they do with mules: they find it hard to train (or operate) something smarter than they are .
I've raised some Fjord mules that were interesting critters. If I was going to have equines in AK it would only be mules. Mainly for their intelligence, character & durability. But also due to their ability to withstand cold. Here's a quote from an article I published years ago:
"Mules have a great tolerance to cold as well as heat. While this may not be very significant here in Florida, it was vividly demonstrated in a small town in Alaska during the gold rush of the late 1890's. The gold seekers brought their horses north with them to pack in their supplies but the horses couldn't tolerate the Arctic winter and all of them died the first year. They then imported a number of mules who served without further problems. The name of the town reminds us of this lesson in mule hardiness; it's called Deadhorse."

I run a few gaited horses inthe hills. Sweet ride if youare by yourself and want to gobble country.
We've a few fox trotters and saddle breds.

need the right mule to keep pace...

I find there are too many listening to too many self proclaimed horse people who really don't know much about what works in the hills and what doesn't.
You can't ride papers and just cause it has them doesn't mean you get a good mountain horse.
any "mut" can be a superb mountain horse. It depends on who put the handle on it...

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Mainly for their intelligence, character & durability. But also due to their ability to withstand cold.

Well, maybe you haven't had enough Mustangs runnin' in your ramuda. I'm not talking about wanna be Mustangs that someone claims to have. A real Mustang. Gov't brand run on the neck. From one of that large BLM ranges.
We have Mustangs that are double tough. Much tougher than any domestic horse. Very intelligent manors very much like mules. Cautious, nibble, but sure footed. Feet hard as rocks.
Really sad what we've done to the domestic horse. All this fancy BS breeding crap .. for what ... nothing gained really....

quote:

Originally posted by Ric Horst:

quote:

Mainly for their intelligence, character & durability. But also due to their ability to withstand cold.

Well, maybe you haven't had enough Mustangs runnin' in your ramuda. I'm not talking about wanna be Mustangs that someone claims to have. A real Mustang. Gov't brand run on the neck. From one of that large BLM ranges.
We have Mustangs that are double tough. Much tougher than any domestic horse. Very intelligent manors very much like mules. Cautious, nibble, but sure footed. Feet hard as rocks.
Really sad what we've done to the domestic horse. All this fancy BS breeding crap .. for what ... nothing gained really....

I've worked with some good mustangs, but have seen a bunch that were pretty bad. ( a few named "Alpo") With no real control, inbreeding was rampant before they were brought in and "domesticated". This amplifies, as you know, the bad traits of the line. I agree, the feet are pretty good compared to other horse breeds, but still not as tough as a mule's. Horses aren't bred for good feet. Most of the breeding "crap" as you call it is designed for specialization. In so doing, it necessarily reduces versatility. That is where the mule truly exceeds. I know mules that show in western, jumping, English & dressage one day, pack in the mtns the next, or drive to the store for groceries & plow the garden.
Nothing wrong with mustangs, or any breed, as a breed. I love em all. I just happen to prefer mules, after nearly 50 years with horses.
http://members.aol.com/brayhaven/bj.htm
"In life, every man deserves a good woman, a good dog & a good mule"
(not necessarily in that order )

Well.. I don't have nearly 50 years, ya got me there...

It makes me angry almost to see a well muscled 1/4 horse, good bone, good stamina and TINY freakin' feet!! Drives me crazy!

I will agree wholeheartedly that Mules are definitely some very well rounded animals. I couldn't do what I do without them. All of our pack and pack well. About half are pack/ride. I have 2 that I am very fond of as they are excellent saddle mules.

I'm a lucky man as I have all 3 criteria!

quote:

Originally posted by Ric Horst:
Well.. I don't have nearly 50 years, ya got me there...

It makes me angry almost to see a well muscled 1/4 horse, good bone, good stamina and TINY freakin' feet!! Drives me crazy!

I will agree wholeheartedly that Mules are definitely some very well rounded animals. I couldn't do what I do without them. All of our pack and pack well. About half are pack/ride. I have 2 that I am very fond of as they are excellent saddle mules.

I'm a lucky man as I have all 3 criteria!

You are lucky indeed Ric! Not only by having some nice riding mules, but living out there in God's country . I've traveled around the country quite a bit & enjoy visiting fellow mule folks. I was president of the North American Saddle Mule assn for awhile and traveled a lot from FL to OR. I'll be out your way this summer visiting a mule enthusiast, friend near Cody. I always like going to that town & spending time in the museum. I also agree with you on what they've done to many of the breeds in regards to feet, & other traits while breeding selectively for some specific goal & forgetting much of what's important in a horse.

Greg,

You visiting Jake?

quote:

Originally posted by Ric Horst:
Greg,

You visiting Jake?

PM sent.
Greg

The only reason the Indians used Appys is because that is the only breed they could catch on foot, they had mules in case they got hungry!

Anyway the above fun post aside, don't worry about breed, just find a horse that is gentle, well broke, and raised in the area you intend to ride in, in other words get a horse that fits YOU....

A hunting horse should be about 10 to 15 years old, young horses will overwork themselves, more prone to panic. A well cared for and healthy 15 year old horse is a dream come true..

Lots of good comments here. I'm partial to Tennessee Walking horses, for covering a lot of ground at an easy gait. I'll admit that in the mountains a ground covering gait isn't that much of an edge, but TWH's also have a good disposition in general, and I've had both walkers and Missouri foxtrotters. My success rate with walkers is about 85-90 percent, with MFTs about 50. I'm going to walkers completely now, plus they come in all sizes, big enough to carry plenty of weight, or small for smaller riders. No matter what the breed, pick out an individual with good general conformation, some experience, and a good general disposition.