quote:

Originally posted by daniel77:
I heard of a "vet", licensed and insured, but obviously green, who was instructed to "do" a horses mouth, and remove the wolf teeth if there were any. The owner then left. When they got back, hours later, the vet was still trying to remove the wolf teeth and involved in fairly major surgery, only he was actually trying to remove the canines/tusks. If you know what wolf teeth are, you know he was pretty far off. Remember, half of all doctors graduated in the lower 50% of their class.
I damn sure know of a few vets that won't lay a hand on any of my horses, just like I know of some famous trainers that I wouldn't let tie one of my colts up. Google Cleve Wells. I know of some equine dentists that won't touch my horses either. Know who you use, and if you don't know them ask around about them.
I'm not being down on vets. I chose to be a trainer and passed up the opportunity to become a veterinarian myself. I have several close friends from college who are now vets. Two of them specialize in small animals and pay equine vets to do all but the simplest work on their own horses.
If the only dental training that the vet had is a week in school ten years ago, I'll pass. If they've gone for more extensive training in equine dentistry, and have the right equipment to effectively work on teeth, I'd have no problem with them. In fact, doccash withstanding, damn few vets want to or are equipped to mess with teeth.

As to the drugs, I've yet to meet a farrier who doesn't have several various sedatives in his truck. Legal or not, that is commonplace in the business, and I have some in the tack room myself. Never know when you may need it. In theory, I'd sure rather dope a horse than have the farrier fight them for an hour or have a major wreck. In reality, I consider it my responsibility to have my colts ready and prepared for the farrier to do his job with as little fuss as possible, but that's another thread.

Sorry for being long winded. It's a rain day and I'm bored to tears.

quote:

Originally posted by WannabeBwana:
They must screen those "equine dentists" really well. They can learn in 4 weeks what it takes vets 4 years plus an undergrad degree to learn. I personally know, like in the sense that I call them by their first name and not Dr. XYZ, several vets who don't know beans about a horse after all of that schooling. Not to say that none of them do, but the majority are going into small animal/mixed practices and are far from specialized in or caring about horses I'm personally kinda leery about any "professional" who's entire business model is premised on illegal activity. I see you are in Canada. Is it possible that this isn't illegal everywhere? The best equine Chiropracters/Farriers/Trainers that I know all did apprenticeships that took a few years and started with a bunch of experience. I'd not allow a farrier strait out of his 6 week school in Oklahoma to handle one of my colts either. I guarantee you that MOST vets graduate, and become licensed and legal without EVER having worked on a horses teeth. Again, I'm saying this from personally knowing a bunch of these folks and Vet School is not a very "Hands On" experience, though different schools probably vary the degree a bit AFA their claim that they're only doing the same things human dentists do, how many dentists do you know who got their license after 4 weeks in school? I've no idea who the AFA is, nor do I care. I'm much more concerned with what the last 300 customers thought about any professional, than I am about certificates and paper.

quote:

Originally posted by daniel77:
I heard of a "vet", licensed and insured, but obviously green, who was instructed to "do" a horses mouth, and remove the wolf teeth if there were any. The owner then left. When they got back, hours later, the vet was still trying to remove the wolf teeth and involved in fairly major surgery, only he was actually trying to remove the canines/tusks. If you know what wolf teeth are, you know he was pretty far off. Remember, half of all doctors graduated in the lower 50% of their class.
I damn sure know of a few vets that won't lay a hand on any of my horses, just like I know of some famous trainers that I wouldn't let tie one of my colts up. Google Cleve Wells.

Like Cleve and his methods or not...he is a helluva horseman!

I know of some equine dentists

Really and truly sir...there ain't no such thing as an equine dentist!!!

that won't touch my horses either. Know who you use, and if you don't know them ask around about them.
I'm not being down on vets. I chose to be a trainer and passed up the opportunity to become a veterinarian myself. I have several close friends from college who are now vets. Two of them specialize in small animals and pay equine vets to do all but the simplest work on their own horses.
If the only dental training that the vet had is a week in school ten years ago, I'll pass.

Veterinarians are the only people who get actual true medical/dental training. Dr. Leon Scrutchfield at TAMU has made sure for years that the students that want to know...get excellent dental training

If they've gone for more extensive training in equine dentistry, and have the right equipment to effectively work on teeth, I'd have no problem with them. In fact, doccash withstanding, damn few vets want to or are equipped to mess with teeth.

Actually...there are many who do nothing else.

As to the drugs, I've yet to meet a farrier who doesn't have several various sedatives in his truck. Legal or not,

If the farrier has them in the truck and gives them to your horse...it is illegal no buts about it.

that is commonplace in the business, and I have some in the tack room myself. Never know when you may need it. In theory, I'd sure rather dope a horse than have the farrier fight them for an hour or have a major wreck. In reality, I consider it my responsibility to have my colts ready and prepared for the farrier to do his job with as little fuss as possible, but that's another thread.

Sorry for being long winded. It's a rain day and I'm bored to tears.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by daniel77:
I heard of a "vet", licensed and insured, but obviously green, who was instructed to "do" a horses mouth, and remove the wolf teeth if there were any. The owner then left. When they got back, hours later, the vet was still trying to remove the wolf teeth and involved in fairly major surgery, only he was actually trying to remove the canines/tusks. If you know what wolf teeth are, you know he was pretty far off. Remember, half of all doctors graduated in the lower 50% of their class.
I damn sure know of a few vets that won't lay a hand on any of my horses, just like I know of some famous trainers that I wouldn't let tie one of my colts up. Google Cleve Wells.

Like Cleve and his methods or not...he is a helluva horseman! Unless you don't want your horse starved, covered in unattended abscesses from spur wounds, and think breaking one's jaw is a bad thing. He's damned sure won some stuff, but I ride horses cause I love horses. Not because I can win if I beat them enough. You may know him personally, and more about that incident than I do, but that was inexcusable and they rightly banned him IMO.

I know of some equine dentists

Really and truly sir...there ain't no such thing as an equine dentist!!!

that won't touch my horses either. Know who you use, and if you don't know them ask around about them.
I'm not being down on vets. I chose to be a trainer and passed up the opportunity to become a veterinarian myself. I have several close friends from college who are now vets. Two of them specialize in small animals and pay equine vets to do all but the simplest work on their own horses.
If the only dental training that the vet had is a week in school ten years ago, I'll pass.

Veterinarians are the only people who get actual true medical/dental training. Dr. Leon Scrutchfield at TAMU has made sure for years that the students that want to know...get excellent dental training

If they've gone for more extensive training in equine dentistry, and have the right equipment to effectively work on teeth, I'd have no problem with them. In fact, doccash withstanding, damn few vets want to or are equipped to mess with teeth.

Actually...there are many who do nothing else. or is it?
Really and truly sir...there ain't no such thing as an equine dentist!!!
There may well be, but after fifteen years of being in the horse business, including, right there in Weatherford working for some of the big name guys, dealing only with high level horses and such, I don't know of even one vet who truly specializes in equine dentistry. Not saying they don't exist, but they aren't advertising much. LOL even though there's no such thing as an equine dentist.

As to the drugs, I've yet to meet a farrier who doesn't have several various sedatives in his truck. Legal or not,

If the farrier has them in the truck and gives them to your horse...it is illegal no buts about it. So is speeding, but who doesn't speed every day. This is extremely common and you know it. They get the stuff from a vet anyway. Hopefully that vet is only selling to guys he knows know what they are doing. I'm not saying that safeguards don't exist for a reason, but some things don't make lots of sense, kinda like needing a prescription for dog wormer, when you can buy the same stuff for a horse/cow in volume over the counter.

that is commonplace in the business, and I have some in the tack room myself. Never know when you may need it. In theory, I'd sure rather dope a horse than have the farrier fight them for an hour or have a major wreck. In reality, I consider it my responsibility to have my colts ready and prepared for the farrier to do his job with as little fuss as possible, but that's another thread.

Sorry for being long winded. It's a rain day and I'm bored to tears.

quote:

As to the drugs, I've yet to meet a farrier who doesn't have several various sedatives in his truck. Legal or not,

If the farrier has them in the truck and gives them to your horse...it is illegal no buts about it. So is speeding, but who doesn't speed every day. This is extremely common and you know it. They get the stuff from a vet anyway. Hopefully that vet is only selling to guys he knows know what they are doing. I'm not saying that safeguards don't exist for a reason, but some things don't make lots of sense, kinda like needing a prescription for dog wormer, when you can buy the same stuff for a horse/cow in volume over the counter.

quote:

There may well be, but after fifteen years of being in the horse business, including, right there in Weatherford working for some of the big name guys, dealing only with high level horses and such, I don't know of even one vet who truly specializes in equine dentistry.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

There may well be, but after fifteen years of being in the horse business, including, right there in Weatherford working for some of the big name guys, dealing only with high level horses and such, I don't know of even one vet who truly specializes in equine dentistry.

That truly speaks for itself as I can name you several.

As a board certified equine surgeon...I deal with the repercussions of many of those so-called dentists all the time.

quote:

Would you agree that there are people (not saying all) who aren't DVMs who can competently do specialized equine work, like dentistry? Or are you just staunchly defending your turf? If you are, that's okay, and I'm not trying to step on your toes.

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Can I assume that you view the Equine Chiropractor the same way?