Hi,
I was wondering how many buy your horses green and break them yourselves? BTW I was watching a program the other day about this guy who uses the horses body language etc to train him to take a rider within a day and without any distress...do any of you use this method?

I break my own. It is not hard but rather takes time. It's not hard to get a saddle on a green horse and ride it all in one day. But that doesn't make a broke horse. You didn't get a college degree in one day, I don't expect my horses to become well trained in 90 days. Or 1 year.

Breaking a horse takes a lot of Wet Saddle Blankets. Horses learn through repeation. Some learn in 5 lessons, some learn in 100.

If the guy you were watching was not Monty Roberts, it was probably John Lyons. Ibelieve that both have web sites. I started using John Lyons methods after my mom showed me the results she was getting with her horses. Either method is really about what any good horseperson does, which is to let the horse tell you what they are ready for.

The guy who I think takes it too far is Perelli, who has people riding with no tack, and has gotten people seriously hurt, because they don't have an "emergency Brake" when the horse decides to blow up on them.

Hi,
Yeah Monty Roberts was the chap, very impressive. He also caught and trained a Nevada Mustang that had never been touched before...
I believe that the training process is a lot easier here in Europe where the horse grows up with constant human contact, rather than an animal that grew up on the range...

The place I have been training has a young colt that has just been weaned from its mother. It had its first time in the ring just the other weekend. Looks like I will get to break a horse. :-)

Haven't "BROKEN" a horse for many years, but I do train the ones I breed. I start when they are yearlings by putting a light saddle on them to get them used to that, then use a cart harness and have them drag a tire around a round pen. In the spring when they are two-year olds, I train them to pull a breaking cart, and if they are relatively big and strong, I will start riding them with a light saddle for up to 15 minutes. As their size and strength increases, riding time might also be increased. Once they are able to go for a half-hour or so, I begin trying to teach them to back up. Next comes cantering and lead-change training, along with side-passing and gate opening.

Since my young horses have an opportunity to watch their older relatives being ridden. You'd be surprised, but the youngsters often want to join in! I had one yearling that, as a weanling, used to watch his mother jumping fences. As a yearling, this fellow started jumping out of his paddock into the pasture, "just like mommy"!!

I still ride a few young horses from time to time, less as I get older...I like to do it, it is a great past time with me...

A smart horse is a pleasure to train, a hammerhead is not...I pick and chose my horses carefully for speed, heart, intelligence, and kindness and in that order...

Yes, I can gentle a horse in a few hours and get on him without him bucking in some cases, but I always felt like that kind of a horse probably didn't have enough heart to suit me...I like a colt that shows a little fire, but not a mean disposition..

Sure, those guys can slow one down enough to saddle and slip on him in one day, but they're still liable to blow up, throw occasional fits, etc. until late in their 3-year old year. I grew up breaking horses, as we've raised quarter horses and used them on cattle since 1958. Most people who haven't spent years of their life on a horse don't have any business attempting to break their own. they are still big animals and can hurt you plenty bad if things go wrong. Another thing I've discovered is I have lost all my desire to play cowboy on the rough ones like I used to as I've made it to 46 years old with no broken bones, getting dumped occasionally is part of the game, matter of fact I got unloaded a couple of months ago.

It never fails to amaze me how people who have been around horses and riding all their lives can screw up a well trained horse. All of a sudden a horse with good manners and training will step all over you or become a real dirty pig. Or a horse that never had problems geting on a trailer now refuses to go...
When I first started riding a few years ago I discovered that the horse I was learning on quit responding to my commands the way my riding instructor said he should and I wondered if I was crazy or what? It was a slow degradation mind you...didn't happen overnight. My neighbor, who is a superb rider and better horseman, got on the horse and in ten minutes told me the horse needed a tune-up... Huh? Said that the horse is well trained its just that he's gotten lazy or figured he had better ideas as he's been ridden badly for the last 6 months by a new rider (me)...
She rode him every other day for two weeks and when I got back on him he was a new horse!
As my riding improved I became more in tune with the subtle signals you make to a horse with your legs, hands and butt...and my ability to control a horse has improved dramatically.
I've been riding a 5 yr Belgian Mare for three years now and she's learned quite a bit (so have I)... Took her hunting in the jump field this year and she's been marvelous.
The biggest thing I've learned about horses is they never quit learning and need constant riding not just to stay fit but also to maintain the proper mental attitude. The younger they are the more that applies...

Ky Nimrod- You're right about the tuneup, however average inexperienced riders usually never notice the difference. I ride cutting horses every week, but still if I ride them enough, I'll screw them up somewhat. The good trainers are professionals and should be better at horse training than I. Of course they can't do my job to the level I can also. Even though I've been on horses since I was in a diaper and broke barns full of them, the real pros are a different breed and that's why they make a living at it.

It takes three years to train a horse AND a rider to that horse. This means at least 5 days a week in the saddle and on the ground.

Most of my horses have been retired race track thoroughbreds, but I have worked with many other breeds and crossbreds. If you spend that kind of time schooling and working with the horse, on your third year the animal will basically be "auto pilot". This is now a team, you and the horse will rely on each other as well as develop a bond and trust. That is essential and why so many people never quite make it or enjoy their horse.

Have any of you done any round pen training? Was it worth it?

Hello;
I wouldn't take anything Monty Roberts says too seriously. There have been some very legitimate questions asked about his background and qualifications. Monty is in it for the bucks, nothing else. As for Lyons and people like him, they have their value, but too many people misunderstand them. It's good to be nice to your horse, but if he doesn't respect your authority position, you are headed for trouble. The most dangerous horse is one who has learned he can disobey his rider and get away with it.
My wife starts all our horses. She starts them in a round pen, where they get lunged with all their equipment, gets them used to the bit etc, and makes her initial ride there. By the time she gets on them, they know everything they are supposed to and rarely cause problems. As for the value of a round pen, I don't know any decent horse trainers who would do without one.
Our horses are started at two and we ride them lightly, but don't do any hard riding till they are three. It takes another couple of years in the mountains before we regard them as broke. As someone once told me, miles never hurt a horse.
Grizz

A round pen can be of value but watch you don't over do it. You'll cause joint problmes for the horse.

I wish I knew more about young horses, I'm the first to admit that I like to climb on & put 'em in gear! I gave my wifes' 3 year old quarter horse to a trainer to break & put 15 hours of training into for $400. Money well spent in my opinion. I have trained her to open gates, jump in the trailer, pack game, & not run off when guns are fired.
I can't afford to get hurt, & know my limitations. (Took me 40 years tho!).

I can train a horse in 120 days and he will stay trained unless someone ruins him....Any problems a horse has is caused by people 98% of the time...At 120 days and a lot of that is behind cattle, he will go into the roping pen with my kids for another 90 days to a year or whatever it takes then on the block for sale, or they will keep him if he is winning money or someone wants him bad enough to pay big bucks for him.

Most rope horses are pretty automatic at 3 to 5 years old around here, then need a little seasoning on the roping circut and some hauling...Prime seasoned roping horses at 10 to 12 then slow down at 14 to 19 depending...Always said when I got one where I wanted it, it died of old age.

A ranch horse should be about finishe and in a curb bit at three years old and be a darn good using horse and just get better every year...cattle and wet saddle blankets are what make good horses...

I don't prefer the Monty Roberts, or the horse whisperer methods, I think just easy moving and toss a saddle on them and ease them around for awhile, then ride them a lot, get them tired because thats when they start learning, and a lot of circles and figure 8's...long pasture rides take a lot of stress out of a horse, gives them time to reflect.

funny thing about horses they can learn in spite of us....

A rope horse is in his prime at about 15 then he dies.

I'm not a big fan of the roberts thing either. Wet saddle blankets. The ustrc got alot of people interest in roping and kind of got a new style trainer in business. One thing is most people don't have the facilities to train a horse properly or ever start one. I can do the ground work but to put the finish touches it takes a hand. Both my rope horses were trained by J D Yates. Brent Lewis is a pretty good hand also and he is starting to do the working cow horse as with JD. I've be into the horse along time and each one is different and the time it takes to train one. I want a horse that likes his job and is good at it. Tom

At the NFR last year the average age of the horses in competition was 17. IMO a good horse a multi facted.

My wife and I got away for afew days and got down to Vegas for the finals. I think had williams and shelton not had such a big money lead going it they may of lost it. Was really glad to see Cody Oh win the calf roping heard he paid 75K for that new horse. Kory Koontz roped on my mare last year at the AQHA world show and had good practices on her but tried the rodeo deal of catching on the corner and as soon as he slowed the rope down she was setting up and got ahead of him and this year JD missed on the head side so I'm just going to show her in the amt. Toughtest thing I ever did was take up roping at 56. My good horse who has won the world AQHA championship in senior heading and also has been reserve world in heel is going strong at 17 plus he won over 100k in ustrc roping. Plus JD and Wayhams won a bunch on him in match ropings. I've had alot of chances to sell him but he will be retire down at the place he was breed, his sire and dam plus acouple of full sister are buried there. He's got a pretty good size pasture waiting for him. Tom