Ann,



I usually take one pack animal for every two people.



But we go in pretty lite and stick to 7-10 mile one way trips. Cold weather hunting trips require more horses or multiple trips. I usually take several trips.



A small tent, two sleeping bags, pads, A change of clothes for each of us, A small propane stove, food, A tarp to cover the saddles, and maybe some rain sheets to keep the horses dry. A small farrier kit or duct tape to replace lost shoes.



I just use the cordura bags that I throw over the saddle. I put the sleeping bags,pads in a top pack. If I was more serious about it, I'd get the hard sided pack boxes or a Decker setup. But for the 3 day weekend trips I take the soft panniers work fine.



Fall hunting trips, I end up packing hay cubes in for the horses. That is either another trip or another horse.



I high line my horses. I frequently leave one alone in camp. But I know which one to leave. My mare is not happy about being left but she behaves. If there is grass, I'll hobble and turn out the horses for 45 minutes or so morning & evening. My horses can run faster in hobbles than I can. We've also began taking in an portable electric fence. We put up 1/4 mile of electric string and turn the horses out all day. ( we highline them at night)

Ann,
In Idaho always step off the up hill side or you will fall forever off that big pony!

hello;
Actually, the cubes is a good point. They are easy to pack, easy to measure, and there is little waste. We usually just dump them in the snow, so they get some moisture, as the horses eat them. Another thing, that I have been wanting to try, is some of these double compressed bales of hay they make here for export. A regular sqare bale of hay is compresses into half its volume and banded with plastic tape, kind of a super cube. I don't see a good supply of whiskey on Painted Horse's list. Very important.
Grizz

My horse would drink the whisky. He's that way. He might even chomp on the game lashed to him. Recently I thew a bear carcass in the paddock for my chickens to pick clean. The horse took interest in it as well. I figured he would be afraid of it.

Those compressed hay bales sound convenient for here at home too!

So what is the best set up for one or two hunters? How many pack animals are best to have per person? What type of equipment beyond the rider's saddle, bridle and halter would one need? Particularly for the pack animals.

Are mules better than horses for packing? If so, why?

I realize this could be a lengthy reply from some but detail is best.

Hello;
Obviously, you got to have a pack saddle of some sorts and then, either pack boxes or some sort of bags to tote your goodies. Details of the above seem to vary where you live. My own feling is to try and keep to one pack animal, even if it means a couple of trips to pack the camp in. The more you got, the more you got to feed and wory about. I usually carry a set of bags that fit over a riding saddle in case I get lucky. Also, that way your riding horses can act as pack animals if you are willing to walk in. After trying in vain to keep my boxes balanced for years, I bought a small scale and now don't have to try and find rocks to balance my packs a half mile down the trail. The downside to having one pack animal is that he may not be happy to be left in camp alone.
Mules? Some people swear by them and others swear at them. I swear at them. I didn't realise until recently that they came in two editions. Either they whinney or the bray, and I have seen horses go nuts when one brays.
Grizz

Thanks Grizz, actually, I don't have any equipment. This is a "someday" scenario for me. So info on the subject will hopefully be used one day. I am not an ATV person, in fact riding an ATV causes my hands to go numb for months. I have some sort of nerve damage from repetative use.

My one reason for asking about how many pack animals was for the fact that horses are herd animals and don't care to be left alone. And tend to make a loud fuss even if securly picketed with an over head line.

Hi Ann-

There are a few considerations--to my way of thinking at least. In no particular order:

1) species sought-bigger animals=more pannier space/weight.
2) distance from trail head or truck/trailer--If you are going in say 30 miles, you will want to get everything in/out in one trip.
3) time duration of trip--the longer the trip the more food/feed you will need necessitating more trips or more horses
4) comfort level--freeze-dried food, backpack stove, sleep under a tarp in your coat , vs. wall tent, wood stove, chain saw, cots, etc.
5) will the area/season allow grazing, or will ALLfeed, not just grain, need to be packed in?

I'm sure there are other items to consider, but that's what comes to mind right off!

Good thread!

--Mike

Guys,

Thanks for your input so far.

My goal is not so traditional but will work for me. I plan to buy a motorhome to pull a decent stock trailer. This will serve as a base until I locate a reasonable hunting area. I'd probably not venture out away from the vehicle for more than a few days. I pretty much hunt alone so I would not range as far as a group of guys might.

I have camped with horses and found it to be a good experience but this of course is nothing like a pack in hunting trrip.

I had a great pack-in bear hunt in Idaho recently. I realize it is a ton of work but I sure had a great time. Mostly because I had a dead broke horse assigened to me. He was slow but sure knew how to pace himself in the mountains and he packed out bear.

I don't think my current horse would do that but maybe with some training?

Can you guys recommend any good books on the subject?

Hello;
I've never been comfortable leaving a horse in camp myself, too much can happen. We usually throw the pack saddle on and take him along. Two books, not specific to hunting, but teach the mechanics of packing; Horse Packing in Pictures by Francis W. Davis and Packing in on Mules and Horses by Smoke Elser.
Grizz

Packing in on Mules and Horses by Smoke Elser
Ditto.

--Mike

Cool! Thanks guys!

Ann,
One of the best books on the subject is "Horses, Hitches and Rocky Trails" by Joe Back. It is informative, amusing and full of great "how to" sketches. It can be purchased at: http://www.wyomingoutdoor.com/cart/ShopDisplayproducts.asp?Search=Yes

Thanks Scott!

Ann, aside from the previously listed books, all excellent, here's another good one. "Horse Camping," by George Hatley, North Country Book Express, (c)1981, softbound.

And, of course, the great classic already listed, "Horses, Hitches, and Rocky Trails, The Packers Bible" by Joe Back, (c) 1959. My copy is autographed by Joe Back, to me, but that was some years ago when I bought it from Back. He died several years ago.

There's nothing in the world, in my opinion, like a pack-in-on-horses hunt in the Fall in Rocky Mountains. Good luck.

L.W.

Hello;
Back's book is probably the most entertaining, but I think the illustrations in Davis' book are much clearer. Elser offer kind of a different approach,ie. roll anything up in a tarp and pack it. You gotta read his description of how he packed a piano to some cabin, but then I remember one of my neighbors telling me how he once packed a 350 Chev motor.
Grizz

Ann, my formula has always been one horse for the tent, one horse per person thereafter. In other words, two people need 5 horses, unless you plan on walking and leading them and I sure don't. You can get by with four horses for two people, two to ride, two to pack, don't take anything you don't need. After several years, I take less every time, so I can get by with one pack horse.

I love a GOOD mule for packing. It seems to me that they hadle the dead weight better and can handle more weight for thier size than a horse.

Quote:

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Ann, my formula has always been one horse for the tent,

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Wow, Jstevens, got pictures of that tent? You camp in style !!

--Mike

That is pretty funny! But obviously the horse camps in style.

Hello;
One of the benfits is to be able to go in style. I went on a ten day pack trip with some friends. You name it, we had it. Popane bottles, tiger torch, barbecue, frozen steaks, chicken and a pack horse load of pepsi to go with the Crown Royal. Obviously, these people had no taste. For five people, we had five pack horses
Grizz

They make the super compressed bales of hay here also. (They ship them overseas) They promote them as taking less space, smaller hay shed.

But they come at a premium. I can get good quality hay for $2.50 to $3.00 a bale. The compressed stuff runs $5.00+ per bale ( 60-65lb bales). But even compressed a bale of hay is not convenient to pack in. The Cubes are $6.50-$7.00 for 50lbs. But the cubes are bagged up and easy to pack. Plus they are certified Weed Free for use on Public lands. The cubes are bigger and the horses don't seem to waste them like they do pellets

I do find the compressed bales convenient to haul in the horse trailer where space is at a premium. I can take 6-8 bales on a trip instead of 3-4 bales of hay.

The sorrel horse is packing out an elk ( mostly boned out) and the Grey horse is packing my camp. And I got to walk out leading them.

.

35 ,
I hunt rugged country in Idaho for elk every year on foot.
I usually get a elk. How rugged of terrain can "good mule"
negotiate, when well trained ? Do they really develop sure footedness if exposed to loose rock, snow, draws with allot
of dead fall... no trails, except game trails.

I have been around good and bad mules and horses in the mountains,I agree that mules are generally more sure footed but have ridden some stout muscular QH types that were as good,I disagree with 35 whelen about mares and I have had some wonderful mares,but a mare in heat on a mountain trail can be a nightmare,no pun intended,we took two yong horses last trip in rode one and packed the other,I dont know that age matters that much if the horse has a good mind,but a lot of horses regardless of age just are not comfortable in the mountains,and if you run into some yuppies w/lammas you can really see a wreck.w/regards

Thanks
1. I know little about mules except when I see horse shoe prints in steep country and men on mules this is the ideal way to go in deep.
In the area I hunt in there are wolves, bears, and a good number of mountain lions. So... is it just a crap shoot for me to find a level headed, sure footed hunting mule ?. Other do it on the trails, but we like cold, steep,dark, high and off trails.

2. I saw 3 men on hunting via mules ride up 25 degrees (not too steep), they sure made basic going up look easy. It was a beautiful sight. I just wonder how they would do going down or up 40 degree incline. I guess its just practice.
The sheep herders here have big strong horses on very steep inclines. I need to think about. A saddled elk now there be
partner.
I saw a elk, 10 days ago RUN (not their fast walk) straight down a rough shale slide so fast it defided description. I would not have thought it could be done as fast as a race horse. A wonderous sight, then ran into the timber and call (mew whistle) for its young.

MJN,

I think a lotof it is just getting the animal of your choice used to that kind of work. I ride my horses a couple of times a week. Usually trail rides up the mountian. So it's no big deal to step over deadfalls. I have had them step over stuff that was tuff to get their leg up and over.

If the hills get too steep, I often will get off and lead the horse or "tail it". And if I get into some nasty deadfalls. It can be a chore to pick your way through. The key is having a horse that doesn't get excited over it.

Last 4th of July we went into a wilderness area in Wyoming. Rivers were still running high with run off. There was a family with 5 Llamas. They were camped because they could not cross the river. It was too high and fast to get the Llamas across. My horses didn't care about the Llamas and waded right into the river and crossed it. I got wet up to about my knees sitting on the horse. Which was better than swiming.

But I'm sure there are horses that would have freaked at either the river or the Llamas. It's all a matter of training them to deal with obsticles.

I am a little shy of cubes, I have seen a horse die from a piece of wire in a cube, another from compaction, scared me off for the most part, fortunatly they were not my horses...I pack in sweet feed or oats and feed it sparingly, and let them graze on our abundant grass in Idaho..That is an advantage of one horse to ride and one or two pack horses as opposed to long pack strings and permenent camps...

Just something to watch for....I would use cubes or pellets if the graze was short.

In July or August, even early September, there is usually enough graze to do just what you suggest. A little sweet feed for energy and let them graze. But by late October, I'm out of luck. What grass there was has been eaten down by the cattle in the area and it's not growing back fast enough. I'd have to let my horse go a long way from camp to find enough to eat.

I usually string a portable electric fence and let them graze like this: