Hello,

I've got a 2yr old Appaloosa filly that I'm working with in. I grew up around working horses on a ranch, so I *generally* know my way around horses, but don't consider myself an expert, and this is the first time I'm really undertaking something like this (training a young horse).

Right now the horse has two 'problem' areas: pulling back when tied solid, and she won't let me work w/ her back feet. The weird part is that stuff I'd think the horse would freak at at this stage don't phase her at all: saddle blankets, ropes all over her body, etc.

On the pulling back when tied, well, she broke a couple lead rope snaps, even the 'bull' snaps. Went w/ a solid rope halter and the lead rope attached w/ a double sheet bend. Either I didn't flip the tail of the rope thru the knot, or something, because somehow she managed to pull back until the knot slipped and she flipped over backwards in the corral. Twice. One place we talked to (ag supply place) recommended a 'Be-Nice' halter, which does look a bit mean, and considering the way the rope halter dug in, I'm not sure this would work any better. Another place recommended putting a lariat around the barrel of the body, up btwn the front legs, thru the halter, and tied just a little shorter than the lead rope to the same post, so that when she pulls back, it would put pressure in a sensitive area and cause her to not yank back. It's kind of weird, as she doesn't pull back at all (well, not more than I'd expect for a young horse, i.e. when spooked) unless she is tied solid. Then she just goes nuts. ????

The other problem, the feet, is going to have to be solved soon as I need to get the farrier out and have her feet trimmed. When I go to pick up a back foot, she sags all her weight to that corner, and pulls the leg away from me across (underneath) her body. I'm on the husky side (6'5", 285#) but she's rapidly getting to stout (about 15.5 hands) for me to try to just 'hold' it as one person recommended. Another recommendation (from my dad, old, old range cowboy) was to sideline the leg. I've seen it done, and it works, but it's definitely not a pleasant experience for the horse, so I'm kind of reserving that for a last ditch effort. I would really like to get her to where she is at least half-ways civil w/ regards to handling the feet rather than making the farrier deal w/ an ill-behaved horse (which seems to be the norm around here, according to him)

Any ideas or suggestions on how to remedy either of these problems at home by myself?

Thanks,

Monte

Try doubling an innertube around a rail or post and tie your lead to that and confine her where she can only back up so far.The tube will give and she should soon learn to give to the pressure when she gets relief by giving to it.I like the double diamond brand rope halters made with 3/8,s rope I tie my own Halters but I make them like theirs.I run a lead or lariat through the tube and tie it where you can release if you have a wreck that way you dont have to get close enough to her to get yourself hurt.w/regards

whoops. Forgot to mention that that was one of the other methods I'd heard of. I guess my question w/ this method is at what point do you move to tying solid? If the horse gets used to there being some 'give' to the tie, what's going to happen when she realizes she's tied solid again?

Thanks,

Monte

Once you think you're ready to tie the horse up, I use a regular halter, then run a lariat through it and around her neck (tied so she can't choke) just in case she really throws a fit. Again keep her butt close to the fence which will limit her pulling back, but someday you'll have to tie her where she can. These horses that pull back are a bitch to mess with and a damn good place to get hurt as they end up lunging forward, hitting you with their head or landing on top of you. I tie a foal up when they're 3-4 days old and teach them to release the pressure at that young age, you can do this just by grabbing the halter and hanging on till they soften up, then release the pressure (not releasing the halter, just take the pressure off.) Young horses done this way grow up thinking you can drag them all over the pasture and don't know they can pull back. Good luck, after breaking a couple of halters etc. you'll need it.

Take a rope and run it around her chest and the lead underneath, out between her front legs and through the halter hook...tie her up with the lead.....when she fall back it will totally cut her air off and she will either go down or jump forward. If she goes down untie her quickly so be sure and use a slip not that will pull....It will break her from that bad habit pronto and for life......

To handle her feet, use 3 way hobbles, the greatest training aid ever devised for bad habits...then pick up her back feet and tap them gently and just mess with her until she calms down...

Any bad habits a horse gets is taught to them....

ummmm... 3-way hobbles? I've seen regular ones, but I've not run across 3-way ones. Are they something you can make from a length of 3/4" cotton rope (I've seen some pretty inventive 'training aids' made from a 30' length of that stuff), or are they a 'buy' item? I assume I'm supposed to put them around the other three feet (that could be a neat trick, since I can't handle the back feet much to begin with), but I'm not following how that keeps her from pulling the foot across and away.

Actually, the 'problem' may be getting better. I picked up a 30' extra soft lariat the other day, and started rattling it and rubbing her w/ it while on halter. At first the ole' eyes got bigger than I thought possible, and the horse had this look like she had seen one of *those* before and expected a really rough time coming up. After a bit she settled down and actually is far more attentive than I think she's ever been. More interested (inquisitive) about that rope than anything. But much more mellow and easy to work with. Maybe she was originally 'educated' w/ one of those; the horse came to us from some folks who had bought her as a yearling from an Indian reservation sale.

Thanks,

Monte

Sorry a thick fingered misprint, thats 4 way hobbles..You have a cinch and all four legs are chain to leather hobbles that run through a ring on the under belly held by a cercingle that adjusts on top, and you can easily adjust the tension as much as you like, its a fantastic training aid for handleing the worst of horses or the gentlest...I use them on mules every time...if they fight you they go down and they do not like being down, so you give them some slack and they get back up and behave, usually after the first fall...They go down easy not hard and if they kick the front legs fold and down they go down...you can do about anything you want with them and it gentles the worst of the worst...and since you are the one that helps them up you become their best friend...Any good saddle shop can make a pair of them...

For your problem I usually use a cotton braided rope thats very soft and tie one hind leg up and that usually works fine, but if not out come the 4 ways...

One thing for sure you must always have control over the horse...A well trained horse is a treasure to own and I would not have otherwise..Train them slow and easy, know all the tricks, and they will stay trained, do it fast and they will come untrained in a heartbeat....Most of the horses around here go into the roping pen or out the door as that what my kids and grandkids do, they work to rope not eat like normal folks...but they do well, I will have to give them that...All Team ropers, the whole bunch, and they have progressed beyond me, thats for sure, even my 12 year old grandson can outrope me (and most pros, but I can still start a colt better than any of them..

I have used the "be nice" halter. It works. I had a 17 hand TB gelding who was a pain in the ass about being tied. After attaching him to a stout tree with this halter and letting him fight it out for awhile he gave in. I was able to cross tie him and picket him on overnight trips after that. He learned his lesson.

I have seen people tie up a front leg to help with the back leg situation you are going through. I never had that problem so have no experience there.

Usually picking up their feet with a soft cotton rope will be all that's required and you can keep far enough away to not get hurt. I much prefer to raise my own and never let them acquire the bad habits, it really makes them a pain in the ass to deal with and the ones that start out that way usually continue to pick up more bad habits along the way. They just are not the trusting sort, they pull back rare up hit their head then equate the pain with your handling, making everything extra hard. Again I pick up their feet while they're loose in the pen as foals and I only have these headaches from horses I buy elsewhere.

Well, I went ahead and tried the lariat around the body this morning. The horse got one good lunge on halter rope before I got a good dally around the fence post (railroad tie) w/ the lariat. She only hit the end of the rope hard once after that, and decided that was enough of that. Still kind of pulling back and nervous and amped up, but I figured she was a little wired having just found out that the rules had changed, so I kept her on there for about 15 minutes and will just keep working on her until she calms down and it isn't an issue.

I'll probably give the soft 3/4" cotton rope around the foot a try this afternoon and see how she deals w/ that. The horse hasn't ever tried to kick me when I'm working w/ the back feet, or do anything more offensive in nature than the occasional switch of the tail. It's just weird how she pulls it across her body and sags all the weight to that corner. Ah, well. Guess we'll see what happens.

Thanks,

Monte

Monte,

Make sure you give her lots of praise when she does what you want. She will learn quicker once she knows she did the right thing.

Milinuk,
Be sure and put a saddle blanket on her so the rope wont cut her back, sorry I left that out, then just make her stand for 30 minutes at a time, don't over do any training, that creates bad habits...

Here is somthing a little different on the pulling back deal. I like to tie all young horses from above. The best is a tree with big sprawling limbs. Tie the horse out far enough, if possible, that they can turn all the way around and walk in circles. Make sure that she can hold her head in a comfortable position, not too high but not too low where she could get a foot over the rope. Horses have a hard time pulling back when tied this way. Leave your horse tied like this until she stands quiet and then turn her loose. It really doesn't take long for this to change your horse's outlook on being tied. This will also help with reining and freeing up your horse's feet. Try it you'll like it, and remember ride'em with a smile!