sdgunslinger,

Answer = 375 RUM.

Reasons = The 375 RUM should go over 3000 f/s with 270 grain bullets and of course will give full 375 H&H ballistics in cruise mode. So the 375 RUM will let you have an H&H and 270 Win in the one rifle. I think the RUM will also be better for powder, especially the various 4831 burn rates.

Although I have just ordered a pair of upgraded 378 Wbys I think the 375 RUM (and possibly the 338 RUM) is the best big banger out there. In my case I prefer the overall package of Wby rifle and 378s and just one reason is because I have added an upgraded Accumark in 30/378. But taken in isolation I think the 375 RUM is it.

The fact that Saeed has a pair of 375/404s surely says a lot for the 375 RUM.

I think the 375 Wby/Imp is a bit like a 30/06 Imp in that it does not take the calibre up to a different class or category.

Mike

Say you want to get a bit more speed than the old H&H chamber can deliver , or maybe get high end H&H ballistics without pushing to the max . Which big .375 would you choose and why ??

The rifle in question is a push-feed , so some of you die-hard H&H fans don't have worry about me ruining a perfectly good CRF .375 H&H.........(grin) . It also seems to feed dummy rounds of either RUM or Weathery persuation perfectly ......

Most of the P.H.'s I know don't want to see a higher powered 375 as the original will over penetrate as it is. Many shooters do not realize what silhouette shooters have known for years. Time on target is more important than ultimate velocity for killing hits.

Why would you want to? All the higher velocity .375's give you is a little longer range and a whole lot more muzzleblast and recoil. What would anyone shoot with a .375 that had to be engaged at over 300 yards? If you're hunting gemsbok or mountain nyala use a smaller caliber, say a .338. The critter will die just as fast and it won't hurt you as much. Faster ain't always better!

What would anyone shoot with a .375 that had to be engaged at over 300 yards?

Kangaroos, goats, pigs, rabbits and birds

One of the things which I always find puzzling on this forum (and others) is that 416 Rigby is praised over the 416 Remington because:

1) The Rigby is rimless.

2) The Rigby will do the 2400 f/s with 400 grainers at much lower pressure than the 416 remington.

Surely the comparison between the 375 Ultra nd 375 H&H is almost identical.

Mike

Undoubtedly, the most practical answer to your question is the 375 Weatherby. You can get 150 to 200 fps extra over the 375 H&H with 300 grainers.

You can also shoot the 375 H&H 300 grain factory loads in it (sometimes with better accuracy, surely as good accuracy) and slow them down from 2500 fps to 2400 fps by so doing. That ought to make them even better according to some, with old bullet technology.

A tough FN solid will do better at higher velocity, according to some others, for brain shooting elephants.

Then, how about a 250 grainer at 3000 fps in the 375 Wby for a little varmint work?

Or just whatever turns your crank. Either the RUM or Wby reamer will cleanup the H&H chamber. Just don't get an old reamer that gives 3/4" of freebore to the 375 WBY. Go with a freebore of 0.375" or less. The H&H freebore is 0.175", the new Wby standard is 0.370" (though some have said 0.375" so let's just call it 3/8" about half of the older spec.). The JRS and Ackley improved freebores seem to have been 0.200".

I like the 375 RUM too, but it is less practical in the ammo availability.

But keep that Pre-64 M70 in H&H configuration. You might have to do some feed work on the rails if you rechambered it, and it will work almost as well as the Wby and RUM as is, and that is good enough.

Kevin Robertson "Daktari" of The Perfect Shot fame states in his book NIATI that he likes to see the 375 slowed down a bit. He says that the 300 gr. solid bullet at 2400 ft/sec. will still penetrare a buff lengthwise. It will also penetrate an elephant skull from any angle for the brain shot. The 375 H&H at faster velocities will likely hit other game if in a herd. The 416 Rigby was made famous as much for the construction of the bullets used as for the caliber and pressure. It is agreed that the Rigby velocity was a bit over stated and ran closer to 2300 ft/sec. Again time on target wins the penetration and kill game.

If I just had to rechamber this to something faster, I would probably go for the 375RUM. I own the 375Wby and like it for several reasons, but it will not provide a quantum leap in performance over the H&H. What is does provide is a somewhat flatter trajectory, easier loading due to increased propellant choices and a bit more recoil. I'd call it a half step upwards in performance.

Those buffalo that Robertson talks about in his books must be dwarf forest buffalo because I have never seen a 375H&H give 100% lengthwise penetration on a buffalo, maybe 70% at most. Not to say it cannot happen, but after several safaris and a number of buffalo I haven't. I've also not seen a soft point exit every time on broadside shots when shoulder bones are impacted. I've seen the results of many tests done by a major ammo company that absolutely show a correlation between penetrative velocity and immobilization of the target. My own hunting has shown this as well, as long as the bullet holds together the animals go down much quicker as the velocity of penetration goes up. This shouldn't be confused with impact velocity.

RUM, since you asked!

And, since I'm about to get one to start playing with, I'm quite the excitable boy about it.



The .375 Magnum page has a little bit of info on it.



Also, this link has some interesting information, plus, it's got the scope on it that I'm going to use:



http://www.azod.com/Shooting/Archive/2003/Q2/375%20Ultra%20Reloads.htm







That's a Leupold 4.5-14x40 Vari-X III with 3.7-5" of eye relief on a Remington 700 LSS.

I'll take all the eye relief I can get, thankyouverymuch!



I've been convinced since I read the thread here on the ".375 RUM loads" that sticking with the Remington 700 in their proprietary cartridge is the right choice for "My .375".

http://www.accuratereloading.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=375330&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1

It's NEW, of course, compared to the H&H.

It's DIFFERENT and contemporary.

It's apparently quite effective, too.



If you're shooting a 'PF', is it a 700, or would you commit the ultimate sin and convert a post-64 Winchester 70 to a Remington cartridge?!

That'd be excellent!

Either way, .375 RUM!

If I ever have a third 375 RUM, I will rebarrel a Winchester M70 Classic Stainless in 300 RUM. They have been found for a song, languishing on the racks of gunshops in the USA, for about $500.00. The 300 RUM windowed magazine box is done like the Remington 700, to squeeze 3 down in an H&H sized box. Simple rebarrel and likely little or no feed work required.

It is not too late to reconsider, ... nah you will probably be needing a CRF hunter to go with the PF tactical anyway, eh?

Well BusMaster I suppose I have comitted the ultimate sin then. Got a good deal on a S/S Win70 Classic in .375 H&H & rechambered that to the .375RUM. Trouble is that throat on this factory rifle was cut so generous that I won't be able to get those nice sharp shoulders as per factory cases but a Weatherby type shoulder. Talk about bastardisation 3 times over(1. converting a H&H 2. Win Rifle Rem Case 3. Weatherby Shoulder). It was either that or loose an inch of barrel length.

I had the barelled action installed into a Clasic Safari wood stock left over from when the action went into a custom job & the combo looks quite good. Makes the wood stand out which I previously thought was quite plain. Even feeds & hold 3 rounds in the magazine. That was a nice surprise as I thought considerable additional work would be required. I was just going to try to shoot it first & see if it was worth doing any additional work later.

Just got it back before Christmas & have been away O/S so I have not fired it yet but quite looking forward to it.

The .375 Weatherby or Ackley was the practical choice but not enough difference in it. I think Mike 375 is absolutely spot on that if Win chambered for the .375 RUM in their ordinary rifles (or CZ) they would sell 4 times as many as Rem could.

Hope more of you jump on the 375 RUM Bandwagon cause I have a stake in it now. As a reloader the RUM gives me more flexibility with those long Premium 300gr bullets like the Barnes X at 2700fps. All things being equal it'll do it easier than the .375 Wea cause of the bigger case.

Pick the RUM!

No Brainer...if you handload 375 RUM you can duplicate 35 Whelen, 375 H&H, 375 Weatherby and 378 Weatherby. Better accuracy than ANY of them. End of story.

The survival story goes on and on forever. The trip might survive a lost-ammo-scenario if one can fire the ubiquitous 375 H&H 300 grain ammo in his 375 Wby, with good accuracy, and loss of only 100 fps in the Wby chamber, and said survivor rifleman knows the trajectory of the H&H round in his rifle.

Sometimes the compensating errors can freakishly come together to deliver a 0.138" 3-shot group at 100 yards, with a 375 Wby with the proper throat.
I have seen it. Intrinsic accuracy is not a problem with any of the cartridges under discussion.

I like the 375 RUM, have two of them, and if I ever hunt Africa with it and THEY lose my ammo along the way, well, I will probably have to rent a 375 H&H.

I would go .375Wby. You will always have some full length h&h brass to form with, you can always use .375h&h, you get a bit more vel. w/o too much of an increase in recoil. I've thought of doing this very thing to a new M70 or CZ.

The 375 Ultra is the 416 Rigby of the 375 bores.

The 375H&H can barely wheeze a 300 X to 2650 with RL-15...Better leave it at home though because at 100 degrees your gun will only go bang once.

The 375wby is a little better than the 375H&H. The 375Ultra is a lot better!

Get the Ultra! Get the gun weight up to 9- 91/2 pounds. If you can shoot old crusty at 8 pounds you can shoot the Ultra at 9. Now you can actually hit things standing 300 yards away!

Let the girls shoot the old fart!

His days are nearly done.

Jamie

I don't think the .375 H&H will ever be 'done'.
I DO think the .375 ULTRA is the 21st Century version of it, though.
The ULTRA is just 'new'.
It seems to be extremely versatile if you handload your cartridges, even more so than the H&H.

I think the the .375 ULTRA will be the alternative .375 to the H&H, with the Weatherby re-chamber in the middle of the two.
Now there is a choice for traditionalists(H&H), daredevils(ULTRA), and ponderers(Weatherby re-chamber) .
Each has a place for maximum choices in the .375 caliber rifle.

Now there is a choice for traditionalists(H&H), daredevils(ULTRA), and ponderers(Weatherby re-chamber)

And the 378 for those who like to load back down to the Ultra

Mike

Having owned these rifles I could not wait to get rid of the .378 Weatherby. That thing kicks so hard that you may loose your trigger finger and start flinching. If you have shot them then go by your knowledge and if not beware.

If you must have more velocity than the standard .375 HH then go with the .375 Weatherby for the reasons of ammo availability. The available ammo is shooting standard .375 HH factory loads of course when you loose or run out of the odd ball .375 Weatherby. If you have a 378 or 375 RUM then good luck.

My .375 "Weatherby" is really a .375 Improved 40. Since one should hunt with like new brass the belted case is no big problem and they hold more in the magazine as far as I remember than the 378 W.

Many here say the 9.3-62 is adequate. So don't over react. Also bullet action may be better at .375HH velocities.

Hows the .378 for loading down , Mike ? It would seem that the even larger case might get to the point where downloading could get problematic...........a point that might favor the Weatherby case over the RUM..........the Weatherby being not that much larger than the H&H case ?

sdgunslinger,



I have owned two 378s several years ago that were the thin barreled Japanese rifles without brakes and if ever rifle could profit from down loading it was those Japanese 378s



Basically the 378 for down loading has the same problem as the 460, that is, a very big case capactity and very long freebore. The 378 will come down to what would be mild 375 H&H ballistics with Varget/4064 burn rate and top accuracy. The 460 is a ditto to 458. I have used between 39 and 41 grains of H4227 in the 375 H&H with 220s for around 2100 and top accuracy. I would expect that a 375 Ultra with a bit bigger charge would be fine, but not a 378. To go lower in the 378 you have to move to shotgun powders and velocities in the 1300 to 1550 area with 220 grainers. I can probably think of some reason why I would prefer an H&H or 375 Wby to a 375 Ultra but down loading would not be one of the reasons.



By the way, the standard 375 Wby has much less freebore than the 378 and not much more than a 375 H&H, which already has quite a bit.



As I said in my original post I think the 375 Ultra is the best of the 375s when taken in isolation.



John S has a 375 Wby on an Echols rifle and over the last week or so he has been doing quite a bit of load testing and his results with 260 grainers are in the same velocity area as the 375 H&H. What happens is that the 375 Wby is much better off with powder than the 375 H&H when 300 grainers are on the agenda and this results in velocities being greater than the 375 to extent that is more than the increase in case capacity would suggest. However, with Re 15 and lighter bullets the 375 is actually a bit better off with powder than is the 375 Wby and so velocities start to line up between the two. In fact I think John would tell you that one of the prime reasons he has the 375 Wby chambering is because it just goes together better with his Echols 300 Wby and he is also primarily interested in the 300 grainers.



In my opinion, for the majority of people it is 375 H&H, 375 Ultra, 378 and with the 375 Ultra being the pick of the litter....if we ignore other considerations such what rifle etc and whatever.



Mike

Good summary Mike.

BusMaster007,
You say the 375 Wby is for "ponderers?"
I have pondered around Alaska with the 375 Weatherby and the 375 H&H. I pondered at two locations in Botswana with the 375 H&H. So far I have only pondered one deer with the 375 RUM in the Lower 48. Where have you pondered with any 375?

Wasn't it Hal Waugh, a famous Alaskan big game guide, who pondered for many years about Alaska with "Big Nan" his favored rifle, a 375 Wby M70 Winchester.

Just call me "Pondero" if that is what pondering is about.

Dear ButtMaster007,
What have you pondered with any .375? Was it a tactical ponder or a hunting ponder?

Your friend,
Pondero

THREAD RESURRECTION...!!!

Gentlemen,

At the time, I was reading too many magazines and articles and internet STUFF.
This was 2004.
I finally got the .375 ULTRA to the range and fired it a couple of years ago.
It has LESS recoil than my Beretta 1201FGP3 12-ga. Military/Police shotgun.
I haven't hunted but ONCE, ever, and that was in Y2K. Remember that year?
I just wanted a .375, period.
Lusted after the H&H. Bought the ULTRA.

As for the 'ponder' statements, it seems to me I was referring to 'The Thinking Man's .375", i.e., the .375 Wby.
I probably should've gone for one of those in a CRF-action, just to be 'on-board' with the mojority of folks here.
I am NOT a hunter and don't pretend to be, but I had a helluva lotta fun getting this thread dug up!
I intend to hunt again some decade...and don't see any problem with using a Remington 700 in .375 ULTRA for anything or anywhere.
I just wanted to bump this back to the top for some more FUN.

Some of the best times I've had on the internet have been on this forum.
I respect the experience and knowledge I find here.

.375 ULTRA works for me.

quote:

Originally posted by lb404:
Kevin Robertson "Daktari" of The Perfect Shot fame states in his book NIATI that he likes to see the 375 slowed down a bit. He says that the 300 gr. solid bullet at 2400 ft/sec. will still penetrare a buff lengthwise. It will also penetrate an elephant skull from any angle for the brain shot. The 375 H&H at faster velocities will likely hit other game if in a herd. The 416 Rigby was made famous as much for the construction of the bullets used as for the caliber and pressure. It is agreed that the Rigby velocity was a bit over stated and ran closer to 2300 ft/sec. Again time on target wins the penetration and kill game.

Kevin can say whatever he wants.

Our own experience shows the exact opposite of his.

With monolothic, solids, as well as with copper bullets like the Barnes X and our own Walterhogs, the best penetration is at about 2700 fps.

Agree Saeed.

The fashion supporting the 2100fps-2300fps is also about scaling down real world effects to support recoil limits Now that the average guy has easy access to guns way too big for him.

Karl.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

Our own experience shows the exact opposite of his.

With monolothic, solids, as well as with copper bullets like the Barnes X and our own Walterhogs, the best penetration is at about 2700 fps.

I think I have seen quite a few times in the "anti Wby stuff" that the 416 Wby is no good because it over penetrates and you get two with one shot

As you were, 6 years and 7 months ago,
a chance to revive pics of JackPhantomHuckleberryHounddog:

I made an error above, and JohnT proved it.
This was discussed in other threads, many times.

The .375 RUM does not completely clean up the .375 H&H chamber.

They both have the same brass length, but the .375 H&H has a shorter neck than the .375 RUM.
So, this causes some "smearing" of the shoulder, unless the barrel threads are re-cut and set back on the .375 H&H when rechambering to .375 RUM.

The .375 Weatherby reamer will fully clean up the .375 H&H chamber with no shortening or setback of the barrel.

This 6.75-pound bare-naked-dry-weight rifle is a .375 H&H.
It was made possible by a 1-pound Brown Precision "Pounder" stock,
a No.3 Douglas sporter contour barrel (0.625" diameter at 24" muzzle),
and a Pre-64 Winchester M70 action, a 5-shooter (4 down in box, one up).

A 6.75# .375 Weatherby would be a daisy.

Jezzzz...did I miss something again?????? The question was a 375 Rum vs a 375 Wheatherby...NOT a 375 H&H. As far as comparisons are concerned the Weatherby is more like a 375 IMP.

Case capacities

375 Rum ~115
375 Weatherby ~104

375 H&H ~95
375 H&H IMP ~102

Realistically speaking there ain't a whole lot of difference.

The only thing I see that might make a REAL difference is whether or not you like or dislike a belt.

As far as performance goes the difference in barrel length or load or if the barrel is "fast" or "slow" makes up any imagined velocity gain or loss.

As far as the rechamber is concerned setting the shoulder back a couple of turns should cure any of those problems.

As far as personnal thoughts go...pick which ever you want...I would rather have a 416 cal tho'.

This is not to diss the 375 H&H...I have one and I'm a degenerate wildcatter, but see no need to rechamber it to any larger case...just go to a larger caliber and call it good.

Anything else is just hair splitting and "iff'n".

Now if you went to the 378 Weatherby... THEN...you would get some performance enhancement.

Luck

If you use the Norma-made .375 Wby brass you get gross water capacity of 111.5 grains.
.375 RUM gross water capacity is about 120 grains.
This is with once-fired factory loads in both cases, measured by me.
FOOBAR's case capacity quotes are indeed FUBAR!

Splitting hairs and iff'n again, are we...

You can blame "Load from a Disk" for the case capacities...I didn't actually weigh any, did you??? Measure 4 different brand and you will get 4 different case volumes. You know that, Rip.

How say ye QL?.

No argument that you do get a good 100 plus fs by going to the Rum, I just don't see there is all much ACTUAL gain...way too many other variable usually getting all mixed up as in all comparisons.

As I intimated there are more things that need to be addressed than just the name comparison.

What does Weatherby say about the 378 case volume as compared to LD's 133 gr.?

Luck