Alf, it would be a "Jeffery's .333 Mauser Action Rifle", or a ".333 Jeffery Mauser," to be queenly about it.



It could be called simply a "Jeffery's .333" but NEVER just a ".333 Jeffery" unless you call it a ".333 Jeffery Mauser."



I'm pretty sure you are stuck with a "Jeffery's .500" also, even though we know it is really a .510.

Good night, long lost fellow bastard brother John Charlie.

Alf,
"-On the original earliest Jeffery cartridge boxes we see WJ Jeffery and co. .404 Mauser magazine rifle cartridges. (1907)"

The Empire may tremble...
Could it actually be like this: The .404 is of German origin (just as the .500 Jeffery alias 12,7mm Sch�ler). The 10,75x73 was made with the aim to supply various Brittish gunmakers like Jeffery and Gibbs with a potent large medium bore in order to compete with .425 Westley Richards.

Jeffery became the largest manufacturer and after some years the caliber became connected with the Jeffery name?

I think that the situation was just the same with the .416 Rigby. The same round was marketed by Miller & Val. Greiss in Munich as the 10,5 Miller & Val. Greiss. Who invented the 416/ 10,5mm...? The egg or the Hen?

The caliber inscription on the barell of Brno ZG 47 in .404 is ".404 Rimless Nitro Express" -i think because it isn't any Jeffery

Husky

Alf

I am thinking about having some more engraving done to my .500 Jeffery. I would like the calibre on the barrel or on the magazine like on this Rigby.
My question is what should it say ?? to be correct ?
Could it say Jeffery's .500 or would that only be correct on a Original Jeffery rifle ?
Or should it read .500 Jeffery like it does on the barrel stamp.
My Rifle is a Heym Express as you know.

This rifle is an original John Rigby from London, one of the last made there.



Cheers,

Andr�

ALF!!! DMAN IT!! you have got to stop now, all those beautifull rifles are causing me to spend more money on Lottery tickets

ALF

Fantastic pictures as always.

Ray Atkinson, I guess you keep the 416 rem you got by searchy, or are there any plans to rebarrel it?

Cheers
/ JOHAN

.

.

Alf

Don't tell me that your .500 Jeffery is one of the original 21 or 23 pcs. made please.
Tell me more about your .500 Jeffery.
I get the Grammar with the .500 Jeffery's I would be so dumb to have your old English teacher make fun of you at the gun range
I think that Jeffery's .500 sounds nice. Like a tribute to Jeffery for steeling the cartridge from August Sch�ler

Cheers,

Andr�

.

ALF

Nice pictures and interesting idea.

Harald Wolf claims that 500 Jeffery is an 12,7X70 Sch�ler, that later has been considered "british" thru the export of rifles, actions etc.

http://www.hataritimes.com/e/index_e.html

ALF, I'm a bit envy on you with such collection of fine mausers

Cheers
/ JOHAN

.

Alf you are the KING of .500 Jeffery
Do you have any idea how much that rifle is worth ??
How did you get it ?
Do you hunt with it ? or is it the crown juweel in you rifle collection ?
Is it magnum lenght mauser or normal ?
You lucky man


Cheers,

Andr�

Well, regardless of the names, I think we all need to go to ALF's house for tea and biscuits and to look at all of his fine rifles!!

-Bob F.

Diddley on the POM poofter "Queens English" nonsense.



Either "Jeffery's .404" or ".404 Jeffery" is fine, and both are commonly used, to name a cartridge that must have started as the 10.75x73 Mauser originally and near simultaneously as the Jeffery's .404 in 1905.



".404 Jeffries" or ".404 Jeffrey" and even ".404 Jeffery's" are definitely corruptions.



".404 Jeffery's" is not too bad, at least its possessive is spelled correctly as an amalgamation of the two commonly used English terms, as idiomatic speech.



So, for clear and free speech, use any of these:



.404 Jeffery

Jeffery's .404

10.75x73 Mauser



Hey, it has been fun goading Alf et al into posting those pictures, which clearly show that "Jeffery's .404" is commonly used, but ".404 Jeffery" is more common.



The .404 Jeffery was a commoner's cartridge offered in commoner's rifles, and the greatest hunter's cartridge of all time it was and is. At least I have some experience with it, in a commoner rifle of stainless and plastic Winchester shop mule format.



If Jim Wisner ever comes through for me on the bottom metal, I shall have a commoner's Mauser for the 10.75x73 Mauser, but it will be engraved ".404 Jeffery" to match the Norma brass headstamp: norma 404JEFFERY



Alas, it won't be a .404 Jeffery Mauser Rifle, however.

Andre,
I'll get you a date with Natasha in exchange for that 500
Jeffrey.
JCN

.

Hey bro,
Jim Wisner has a new two month old baby and is buried in work. It may be a while.
JCN

JCN,
Yep, I ordered bottom metal from him about 9 months ago. Looks like he went and bottom meddled his wife instead. Jim was making a chip off the old block instead of making chips fly. I will try to catch him by telephone some Friday morning, maybe see if I can change the order from a 4-down box to a 5-down box for the .404 Jeffery.

Bottom metal and boxes: Mama's got a squeeze box, Daddy never sleeps at night ...

Hopefully Junior will be a prodigy who starts chips flying as soon as he is walking and talking (9 months from now), and helps Jim catch up on the backlog.

Forgive my free associations and bottom meddling.

Now, back to the ".404 Jeffery Owners Urinate" topic ...

Wouldn't be the first train that got derailed by pecker poisoning.

In the interests of time I might get Blackburn bottom metal and send it off to Dennis Olsen for the minor surgery.

Interestingly, Pac-Nor will barrel and rechamber. They have a CIP spec reamer. Any thoughts on that approach?

Brockman charges $292.00 for one of their English express style stocks inletted and with cross bolts installed. Bedding is $125.00. Pretty reasonable way to go for the CZ route.

JCN

I'm building a 404 on a win 70, I not very far along with it, orig plan was to go with 3 down, but wondering what bottom metal costs in the event I want to get one more down, would guess about 500.

Gringo, It's not just the cost of the BM, you have to build a new stock. For now, I'll go w/ (3) down, but if I break or bang up the stock, I'll go w/ a drop mag. & a new stock. Good luck w/ the M70 project. Despite what some (one) guy/guys think, it's not FU.

JCN,

Oops! If JW reads any of this, I am screwed! Maybe he has a sense of humor?



If you like the Pac Nor twist, then having them do the job is fine, for a 404 Jeffery. BTW, what is their twist and muzzle diameter you are considering?



In the interest of time, I would just go with a CZ 550 Magnum box as is. I'll wait for JW, if he will still have me.



That Brockman setup for the CZ sounds great.



I have a Waffen Frankonia Mauser in 30-06 that has claw mounts and a Mauser flag safety and thumb cutout. It is a military M-98 that was redone by Frankonia in the 1950's.

This may become a "Jeffery's .404" chambered Mauser if JW ever ships. Note, I know it will never be a ".404 Jeffery Mauser Rifle."



Until then I have my pitiful stainless and plastic Winchester shop mule.

RIP,

No one with a two month old has a sense of humor! Actually JW is a very gracious and talented man. Busy, backlogged artisans are why we all have several projects in the mill at all times.

Pac-Nor's .423 barrel is a 9 groove at 1:14" twist. A bit slow for monometals, but should be ok for Woodleighs and Swifts at a moderate velocity.

I will probably go with a #6 contour (.750" @ muzzle) cut down to 22" for my Winnie project. When I build one on a CZ action (I already have the silver and black Winnie on the way) I will probably go with a #5 contour (.700" @ muzzle) with a 26" length. In a Brockman stock that would reinforce the English express rifle look and balance.

This is all subject to change after I work through the Geenhill formula, and ponder a bit.

I don't think many people realize how thin the barrels on these big bores are. A #5 barrel only has a wall thicknes of .1385" at the muzzle. A slow-motion video of a monometal going through one would likely look like Michael Moore passing through an overly ambitious Anaconda snake.

BTW, I talked with my banker today. He said that if my buddy with the CNC machines would commit to enough production time the bank would lend me enough to get a good quality bar feeder to make monometal solids. I will do some (a lot) of research between now and the end of hunting season. If it pencils out (yeah it may take a very sharp pencil) I will go for it. I would want to work a deal with Walter to use the name Walterhog Bullets . That is the best name for a bullet I have ever heard. I couldn't come up with anything that good in a thousand years.

Evidently JRS is going to make a drop belly laminated stock for Model 70's. Will be ugly, but no doubt very effective.

I don't think the express style stock for Winchesters from McMillan will let you get your head down enough to use iron sights.

JCN

JCN,
Are you starting a new bullet making company?
Visiting a banker for a loan for machinery sounds serious.
Go easy Bro'. But, I am sure that Saeed wouldn't mind if you use the Walterhog name. On this side of the pond, there is a need for flat nosed, banded, monometal copper solids in all traditional calibers and weights. Speer AGS tungsten cores for $5 per pop don't cut it!

Yeah RIP,
The numbers are pretty scary. Maybe I'll just try and crank out a few hundred to play with.

Do you think the #5 contour is stiff enough for a 404 Barrel?
JCN

John, my M70 has a 23" PacNor #5 on it & balance is about right w/ an 8oz merc. red. in the but, just a little muzzle heavy, 9.25# w/o scope. Accuracy w/ the NorthFork softs & Barnes solids is excellent, any heavier & I think balance may suffer unless you shorten the tube.

JCN,

Fred is right on.

I do think a number 5 contour is perfect.

That is what I ordered from McGowen for mine, by the time the smith got finished trimming and crowning the muzzle to 24" overall, the muzzle diameter finished up at 0.720".



Therefore, he got the chamber right first try and left most of the full thickness shank. The original blank tapered to 0.700", or close to it, but after the circumcision, it ended up 0.720" at the muzzle.



That leaves 0.149" for wall thickness at the grooves of the rifling in my barrel, at the muzzle. I think 0.125" is the bare minimum allowable. It gets thicker rapidly toward the breech, eh? Aye.



If you trim the barrel back to 22", a number 5 contour is more than adequate. Your wall thickness will be over 0.150" at the muzzle, and thicker breechward.



My gun without ammo and scope is slightly muzzle heavy as it is, but balances well when loaded and scoped.



No. 5 is the heaviest I would want on a .404 Jeffery.

No. 5 is the lightest I would want on a .404 Jeffery.

In fact it is the only sporter contour I would want on a Jeffery's .404.

It is still a very fat barrel for a sheep rifle. Luckily my sheep rifle is 1 pound lighter than Fred's (8.25#) and could get even lighter with a Brown Pounder.



Cheap rifle and sheep rifle.

Fredj338,

I have a blank or two, going to restock anyway, tuperware stock stock to short for my LOP. But if I'm going to restock, might as well look into new bottom metal if its not to hard on the pocket book.

I put a medium Pachmayr black rubber slip-on pad over the tupperware butt, and it brings the LOP so close to my preferred 14.25", that I am just fine with the tupperware stock ... for now ... lest I appear too cheap to any sheeple out there ... I can always restock and increase the sex appeal of the sheep rifle later. LOP is thus not an issue for this cheapskate. Makes a fine shop mule for load development too. No worries about scratches and dings no matter how rough the sheep country gets.

Jeeez, only a pervert would stock a 404 in plastic, thats akin to dressing Britney Spears in a towsack, it still works but looks like crap!

Try Blackburn: www.smithsonblackburn.com

Ray, RIP can't be a pervert if he is building a .404, a bit misguided stocking it in plastic, but not perverted. Like Brittny in a burlap sack, she wouldn't look like crap, just not as good.

Jeez... How can you guys even mention BS in the same thread as the .404...

Can't sing and look like crap no matter what she'll wear.



The .404 is a classic, if you want to compare it to a woman, try Julie Christie... In this comparison, Britney would be the equivalent of a plastic stock...



Pettson

Thanks boys,
I'll go with the #5 contour, and will have Pac-Nor do the barrel and chambering. Found someone to teach me how to drill, tap, and silver solder the sights. Phase two will be a trip to Dennis Olson (for the rifle) for an add a round to me surgery. $$$$ doesn't change the fact that Brittney is just a young drunk. As long as she is making money no one will help her to turn her life around. Judy Garland had real talent and looks, but also pissed her gifts away. Just sad.
Yeah, Julie Christie......
JCN

Can you sheeple not get your minds around a synthetic and stainless Jeffery's .404? Ray is your shepherd, and yay though you walk through the valley of new ideas, you shall fear no evil, for you are blinded by the backside of the sheep before you.



The scenery never changes if you are not the lead dog.



I have a fiberglass Brown Precision stock for the Jeffery's .404 Sheep Rifle. But so far the milk jug stock is doing fine. The stainless and the synthetic, they comfort me. A 1905 cartridge about to be reborn in a 2005 format rifle impervious to hard use.



I know, it must have been the trimming and crowning and circumcision joke about barrel length (instead of just "cut and crown") that got Ray worked up. I am sorry about introducing the worn out bore envy aspect of the sheep rifle. And then there was the JW bottom meddling jokes. My bad!



When I get that Brown Precision stock on the .404 Jeffery, it will weigh less than 8 pounds bare, about 7.75 pounds, a fitting mate to my 6.75 pound Pre-64 .375 H&H in the Brown Pounder.



Uh oh, I said "bare," "mate," "pound," and even "Brown Pounder" in the same sentence! Don't go there Ray, it will not be pretty! Also, please ignore the phrase "hard use" above.



BTW, can Blackburn bottom metal still be obtained? I thought he was under the weather recently with health problems. Has the fine old fellow bounced back into making chips fly again?



A thought: JCN can name his new bullet line "RayGun Bullets" as a tribute to Ronald Reagan's passing, and besides, Ray will think it has something to do with him, and might take to promoting the line. Also has a high tech ring to it, suggesting laser-like trajectories for the CNC projectiles. If a more humorous business name is needed, try "Raygunomics, Inc."



And now, I seriously must "Lay Low" for a while. I did not say "Lay Jaylo," Ray. Gotta get some work done. Enough fooling around.



Pilamaya hwo. Doksa.

Jeeez, i am a pervert, didnt know i had it in me. To my defence i can say that i have a classic wooden stock also that is beeing used for range work. My mcmillan plastic are the one i grab for when hunting season sets in, because then the really foul weather also sets in. Bs in a burlap sack, yes i am a pervert.