I do not want to Hi-Jack The other post on not getting the 375.

I think it was Jeff Cooper that said "The 375 H&H is too much gun for 90% of the game we hunt, and not enough for the other 10%".

I would not be quite that harsh as I think it is about perfect for about 10% of the game we hunt, the BIG bears, lion, and eland.

However the FACT is if you have to have a rifle that is suitable for deer sized game, that might need to be taken at a distance, and yet you might have to shoot a buff or elephant off of the end of your barrel the 375 H&H is probably the best choice.
The 375 is an ICON, no doubt.
I am a big fan of the 9,3x74R double rifle.
And I think anything I could do with a 375 H&H I could do with a 9,3x74R. Still I believe in Physics, and a 300 grain .375 bullet at 2500 fps is "mo-better" than a .366 286 grain bullet at 2300.
However for African DG I would rather have my 9,3x74R double rifle than a 375 bolt, but that is personal preference. I MUCH PREFER a double rifle for DG. I prefer the Double Rifle for ALL game under 250 yards..... But...
The fact is the 375 is hard to beat.
Well handled it will get the job done.

As a bonus if you are a reloader you can taylor your bullets and velocity/recoil to suit the game you are hunting, thus getting a lot of use from your 375 H&H rifle.

If you are an international hunter a 375 should probably be in your "battery".

450: I've heard the arguably valid argument saying the 375 is "neither fish nor fowl" which is essentially the same as Cooper's statement. I've stated it before but I'll say it again; after watching my friend handily take a buffalo at 25 yards and a kudu at over 350, I just can't think of a more perfect caliber. jorge

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
450: I've heard the arguably valid argument saying the 375 is "neither fish nor fowl" which is essentially the same as Cooper's statement. I've stated it before but I'll say it again; after watching my friend handily take a buffalo at 25 yards and a kudu at over 350, I just can't think of a more perfect caliber. jorge

Jorge,

I believe with that statement [B]you said it all, I couldn’t agree more.

Roland

Please catch my post on that other thread, it sets out my philosophy on this issue; however, another issue has impacted our decisions on caliber selection: Airline regulations limiting us to two rifles per case and regulations in some countries that prohibit importation of two rifles of the same caliber.

In addition to our preferences, we must consider that if one rifle fails, the other we bring must be capable of covering all the animals for which we are hunting or might hunt us! I found that this had more to do with my ultimate selection of rifles on my last trip with my son that anything else.

On that trip, a full 21-day safari for everything but elephant, but in elephant country, I ultimately selected the 9.3x62 and 375HH. I had two 40 cal choices: 425 Express and 416/404, but they did not fill the bill for longer (250yd+) shots which I was told we might have and we did. There was also a problem "harmonizing" lighter long range loads with sight settings for heavy duty loads. I have several 30 calibers, but they wouldn't serve well for the larger animals we were hunting or might encounter.

This quantary points out the practicality of the 9.3 and 375 has general purpose, all round calibers. While I would rather have had a .40 in some instances, the downside if my "light" rifle had gone down was unacceptable.

The ability of rifles to "harmonize" various loads and to fill in for one another in the environment in which you hunt is, I think, going to be increasingly the determinative factor in rifle/cartridge selection for hunts in Africa with a two gun,two caliber limit. Kudude

I agree. It is nothing less than the best candidate on earth for the title of "all around" African rifle caliber.

And it's a great medium if you want to take your light and heavy along, too!

jorge, roland1, kudude, and MR.
Exactly. No other calibre can fill the shoes of the 375 H&H.
Whether you carry it as your biggest bore, or as a back up to your BIG bore, it can cover both ends of the spectrum if necessary.
As a plus, anywhere BIG big game is hunted you can usually find 375 H&H ammo.
A 375 H&H well handled CAN do it all.
To para phrase jorge and MR, "I just can't think of a more perfect [all round] caliber."

Kudude, that is an absolute great line of thinking! When hunting deer in Brown bear country, carry a brown bear rifle!

Mac
I had the same feeling on a black bear hunt in BC last year. My normal choice would have been my 7x57, but since we were in grizzly country I felt much better with the 9.3x62 and brought my .338-06 as a back up.

I agree..

The 375H&H can do it all, if the need be..as Tony noted in his first post, the 375H&H is probably ideal for use on the Big Bears, Lion, and Eland...but up against large, heavy bone and thick skinned game, I prefer a 458 caliber or better, 500grain bullet, with at least 2100fps+...

Where I think the 375 is very useful, is as a second rifle on a PG/DG...use it primarily as a PG rifle...sighted in properly it is deadly and accurate, at longer ranges...and if stuff happens with your Big Bore the 375 can play double duty on the big hairy stuff..

I will never go on a hunting trip without two riles..My friends always asked why I brought two rifles, they considered it just more luggage.... then on one trip, we had a rifle with a problem, they were very happy I brought the second rifle then....

I could not think of going to Africa without a 375 (Tony, I have not forgotten our discussion on the 9.3x74 DR that would work equally as well) and a bigger bore as described above...

Wasn't it Jeff Cooper that worked with Hornady & Steyr to produce the 376 Steyr? That died deader than the 375 RUM. He may have been right but the 375 H&H will continue to beat all newcomers!

Long live the 375 H&H!!!

Regards
JohnT

jjs
As you and I, and several other members of the DRSS have discussed, I took my 9,3x74R Chapuis double on my hunt to Zim in 2004, and I will be taking it again in March 2006. I consider it the equal, in the field to the 375, and it is a double rifle [scoped] so I like it better that a 375 bolt rifle for African hunting. Strictly a personal preference.
You will never hear me saying anything bad about the 375 H&H.

I do not consider the 375 a big bore, for me a big bore starts at 40 cal, 400 grains at 2100fps.

Still, a 375 IS WHAT IT IS. and nothing ELSE IS WHAT IT IS.

somehow, every year we hear/see a new or new/old cartridge that does the 375HH's job...but mo'betta!!

The 9.3x74R is a nice cartridge, but, but...it still mikes .366 and them PH's still tell you it is not a legal DGR cartridge. They are useful for one thing though, I use them to make the old Winchester single shot rifle cartridge known as the 38-90-217 Express for my black powder HiWall for 1000yd shooting with 350-400gr cast bullets.

Rich

The .375H&H is one of the very best choices for hunts where the size of the quarry can range from dik-dik to bushbuck to zebra to lion to Cape buffalo or even elephant.

It has range, 'power', moderate recoil, great penetration, and a reasonably flat trajectory. It's considered legal for all DG in any African country that permits tourist hunting.

Very few cartridges can match all those criteria, and fewer still have the record of success of the venerable .375H&H.

George

"Moderate" recoil. Try tellin that to some of the folks in the med and small bore forums! The 375 is fairly easy to load down or up to suit your needs. I guess being able to find ammo ANYWHERE in Africa helps too.

On one trip to the Okavango took a 375 H&H with 300-grain Swifts for my light rifle, a 460 Weatherby with 500-grain Swifts for the medium, and a 500 Nitro for the heavy.

Used the 375 H&H for 90% of the game and never had a problem.

Hammer

Out of the 14 plains game animals I have taken in Africa, 10 of them, ranging from steenbok to eland were taken with a .375 H&H (plus two black mambas on top of that!). I never felt over gunned, or under gunned.

I agree with those that say it is pretty much perfect. In fact, my next 375 will be my "all around" BC hunting rig, for any big game other than mountain trips where I will use a lighter rig.

Cheers,
Canuck

The 9,3x62 is to .375H&H what 7x57 is to 7mmRemMag.

To play devil's advocate, a very experienced african hunter and fellow AR member cautions against the use of the 375 as your light rifle in places like TZ where the ranges are long and when faced with a small target like a Tommy at 250 plus with a 15mph X wind, the 375 is hard pressed. Just something to think about. For a two rifle safari i think I would prefer my 340 and 416 instead of the 416/375. For a one rifle the 375 is it, a 375 or 378 Weatherby even better. jorge

quote:

Originally posted by gixxer:
"Moderate" recoil. Try tellin that to some of the folks in the med and small bore forums! The 375 is fairly easy to load down or up to suit your needs. I guess being able to find ammo ANYWHERE in Africa helps too.

To some, the .30-06 kicks too much. I don't associate with people like that.

George

I agree the 375H&H just works. I am looking
at 2 hunts. 1 to Namibia where my 06 and 375
will go. 1 to Zim and it will be the 375 and
the 458 Lott. It just fits so nice.
Gene

Jeff Cooper"s statement that the .375 isn't big enough for some game and is too large for the rest may be true but no caliber can do what two (one larger and another smaller) can.
However the .375 does this better than most. It is a great and well proven round.

quote:

Originally posted by Hammer:
On one trip to the Okavango took a 375 H&H with 300-grain Swifts for my light rifle, a 460 Weatherby with 500-grain Swifts for the medium, and a 500 Nitro for the heavy.


Hammer

I love your definition of a "Medium" rifle

Tim

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:

quote:

Originally posted by gixxer:
"Moderate" recoil. Try tellin that to some of the folks in the med and small bore forums! The 375 is fairly easy to load down or up to suit your needs. I guess being able to find ammo ANYWHERE in Africa helps too.

To some, the .30-06 kicks too much. I don't associate with people like that.

George

Yea, hearing folks say "that is too much for me, I had to get the 270"... Bah.

Somewhere on the internet, or closer to home it has been stated that: "375 H&H, one rifle one planet." I do believe that if left to the only one rifle question; my Sako Safari would be that rifle.

The .375 H&H is almost 100 years old and so far nothing has seriously challenged it. Some a lot more powerful, some of similar caliber and some of both and yet.....the old H&H offering is still untarnished and as popular as ever.

Regardless of what one thinks, it's longivity and continued popularity in the face of a lot of competition is undeniable. There's a reason for this and it's well known. The .375 H&H will do it all and in spades. There's no question as to will it work?....It's been doing it for nearly a century.

You may want to tar and feather me, but I found my 416 rem mag to shoot flatter and drift less than my 375 H&H. I shot 350 gr TSX and 270 gr TSX. With a 200 yard zero my 419 was 8" to 9 "
low at 300 my ,375 270 grs were more like 12 to 13 low and dropping fast. On I shot zebra and gemsbuck with both. You could not tell the differance how they went down. More damage with the 416 though. Pass 300 the 375 H&H seemed to drop much faster than the 416. Max loads with both 1/2 moa with both. When I say max any more powder would push the bullet out the case . I could noe get enough crimp to hold the bullet.

If I had to chose one it would be the .416

JD

JD, that may be true, but more or less this thread was started cause of a comparison of hte 375 to the 9.3x62. Either way, I wish I had a 416 to go with my 375.

A local "famous" gun mag writer dosen't like blowing out or improving cases. . . normaly.
But he reckons for handloaders the 375H&& is one that needs changing to 375Weatherby, to stop cases stretching so much.

quote:

Originally posted by JohnT:
Wasn't it Jeff Cooper that worked with Hornady & Steyr to produce the 376 Steyr?
That died deader than the 375 RUM.
He may have been right but the 375 H&H will continue to beat all newcomers!

Long live the 375 H&H!!!

Regards
JohnT

When did the .375 RUM die?

quote:

I think it was Jeff Cooper that said "The 375 H&H is too much gun for 90% of the game we hunt, and not enough for the other 10%".

Jeff Cooper might know something about handguns, but he surely talks a lot of rubbish when it comes to hunting in Africa.

He said in one of his articles that if you shoot 10 buffalo, one will charge you!

Obviously the 100 plus I have shot, and several hundreds the PHs I have hunted with have seen been shot, did not read his article.

As not even 1% of them charged! And my own buffalo have almost all been shot with a 375.

It is such a shame that animals don't read the script. An old emplyee of Holland & Holland once told me that the 240 H&H magnum kills stags better than any other caliber. This cartridge shoots a 100 grain 6mm bullet at 2900 fps. When I mentionedf to him that a 243 Winchester would do just as well, he got very upset!

quote:

Originally posted by BusMaster007:

quote:

Originally posted by JohnT:
Wasn't it Jeff Cooper that worked with Hornady & Steyr to produce the 376 Steyr?
That died deader than the 375 RUM.
He may have been right but the 375 H&H will continue to beat all newcomers!

Long live the 375 H&H!!!

Regards
JohnT

When did the .375 RUM die?

Although I own a 375 RUM, let's be honest here. How many assembly line guns are chambered for that round these days? Like 2, and they are both Remingtons?! If I am missing one, let me know. Either all original owners of the RUM really love their rifles, or there are not many in circulation. If you look at gunbroker, there might be 2 or 3 rifles for sale at any given time. Heck, my rifle was 4 years old when I bought it! Kinda makes you wonder huh. Good thing somebody reminded me about that, I need to buy brass.

From one of the most experienced big game hunters in history...

"I know, from using the rifle myself, that the .375 Magnum can safely and satisfactorily be taken against any animal anywhere in Africa. This is not written on the strength of shooting a few beasts with a new weapon and being pleased with the result. I have had three of Holland's .375 Magnums: the first bought secondhand in the early days of my experiments; after using it extensively I discarded it in order to try other weapons; Later, after I had been through the list of it's contemporaries, I bought another, also secondhand, so as to check up on the notes that I had made on the first one's behavior. So satisfied was I that I then discarded it and had Messrs. Holland & Holland build me up a new one - the one that I am using at present. I have fired more .375 Magnum ammunition in my life than any other calibre: over 5,000 rounds at game, including all kinds of African game from elephant downwards.

"I kept no record of the number of elephant and buffalo shot with the first two .375 Magnums; but I distinctly remember the day when this one dropped it's hundredth elephant; and in addition this same one has accounted for somewhere between 400 and 500 buffalo, besides a number of rhino, hippo and lion, and of course, a fair quantity of lesser game. So that both it and I are thoroughly accustomed to each other's little ways. I am not suggesting for a moment that it alone is a suitable weapon for the professional elephant hunter; and naturally I have other much more powerful weapons for use under certain conditions. But what I am suggesting is that personal experience has shown me that it is an eminently safe, sound and intensely-satisfactory weapon to take against any animal anywhere if the sportsman does not want to be bothered with a number of different weapons."

John Taylor - "Big Game and Big Game Rifles" Chapter 8 - page 103.

________________________________________________

What more can be said??? I think I'll leave it at that...

Gixxer, I understand you dilema. I looked at 8mmRemiMag at Buffalo Gun Center, I later went to Dick's and bingo.....twenty boxes of Remi 'Express' 8mmMag ammo at $8/box of 20. Went back to get that Remi 700, but it was gone, so I didn't go back to get that ammo.
is not necessary, but next time find ammo deal first! I have nothing against that plebian 9,3x62, and if I happen to find some RWS loads at $10/box, I will buy into that caliber!
Now I remember why I got the .375H&H, I bought several boxes of Winnie 'Silvertips' at $12/box at a quaint NC gun shop.

And that's not tomention the fantastic bullet weight ranges available -from aorund 200gr to around 380 gr and that makes the 375 capable of performing much like a 30-06 to a 416 rigby. By the way - has anyone shot, loaded these very light bullets in a 375 - slowed them down and hunted with them? I've heard mixed reports but that was with gentlemen using "hot" loads on the small bullet weights and the bullets failing.

Good point Berger, if I were you I would comission Peter Hofer to make me .30-06 or .300H&H-.375H&H SxS SLE. You know, .30cal-.375cal "horizontal double". Could we call this "Doppelbuchse-buchse", or something?

paolo9,5x73

I don't know about the rest of you but if I won the lottery and decided to go hunting a Kodiak or Polar bear
on his home turf it'd be a tough choice between the
375H&H and anything else, except for perhaps it's
"Improved" version, the 375Weatherby.

Anything bigger is harder to control
anything smaller probably isn't enough if you are doing it for the first time.

a Lion? I think I'd want a double rifle.
I've actually seen the video of the Double rifle shooter and the bolt rifle shooter having a "race" to see who could shoot fastest....

On a Leopard? I'd leave the rifle in camp
and take my Remington 870.

Of all the things in life I'm confident about doing, hitting a moving target with a 12ga Remington 870 is near the top of my list...
Though remembering to let the cases fly instead of catching and pocketing them might be difficult...

though thinking about it if I won the lottery why not an original John rigby Magnum Mauser in 416Rigby?

I mean it doesn't cost any more to dream in 1st class instead of Coach


AllanD

An 870 for leopard is not a wise move, at least not with most PHs I've spoken with or read about. As for lion, give me a scoped 375 over a double anyday. jorge

Berger
I have killed several deer with the 220 Hornady FP and the Speer 235 grain bullet loaded over 60 grains of IMR 3031, and several deer, and my brother some pigs, with the 235 Speer over 64 grains of IMR 3031. Worked perfect.

NE 450 No 2 what speed did these loads achieve?