I am in the initial planning stages for a buff hunt in 2010. I currently have a couple of nice .375 H&Hs (Win m70 and Whitworth) that will probably suffice for the hunt. I also have an opportunity to acquire a very nice 458 Win Mag at a decent price.

Having never fired anything bigger than the 375s, I wonder about recoil and how much I will use it. Would the 416 Rem be a better choice?

So, I am wondering should I buy the 458, look for a 416 Rem or stay with the 375? Ideas, suggestions, advice, and opinions are appreciated.

You are bound to get plenty of free advice here but no matter what you choose you should do fine with any of the choices mentioned.

The .375H&H is good. On buff, the .458 would be better, IMO. The pair, in combination, would cover 99% of your hunting needs in Africa (400yd. shooting of baboons, springbok, and red lechwe the notable exceptions. )

If the .458 can be had at a good price, buy it and try it.

HOWEVER, do not approach it as something to be feared. Your first shots should be with open sights (to avoid getting cut by a scope), and off-hand.
With your 'strong' hand, pull the stock into your shoulder; with your 'weak' hand, hold the fore-arm firmly, pulling back slightly.

Obtain a a sight picture, and squeeeeeeze the trigger. I think you'll find that the recoil is not as bad as you feared.

George

Oday,

If you shoot the 375's well I would just stick to them. They have proven themselves enough times that there is no question as to their effectiveness. In the course of testing the recoil shields I make I fire 800-1,000 round a year through my 458's and I find the recoil to be significantly heavier than a 375. Without a shield I can only describe it as grim. If it were me I would go with the gun you shoot the best. Just my humble opinion.

Oh yeah, don't pay much attention to all the negatives you hear about the 458 (e.g. squibs, not reliable killer.....) Maybe 40 years ago but with the wide array of great powders and bullets we have available to us today it is an excellent cartridge.

TMc

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:
The .375H&H is good. On buff, the .458 would be better, IMO. The pair, in combination, would cover 99% of your hunting needs in Africa (400yd. shooting of baboons, springbok, and red lechwe the notable exceptions. )

If the .458 can be had at a good price, buy it and try it.

HOWEVER, do not approach it as something to be feared. Your first shots should be with open sights (to avoid getting cut by a scope), and off-hand.
With your 'strong' hand, pull the stock into your shoulder; with your 'weak' hand, hold the fore-arm firmly, pulling back slightly.

Obtain a a sight picture, and squeeeeeeze the trigger. I think you'll find that the recoil is not as bad as you feared.

George

This quote from George says it all. I use a 458wm by the way, and it works great.

JPK

Buy the .458, of course. It packs more punch and kills better, IMHO.

All of this constant talk about recoil and how awful it is sometimes makes me wonder if men as a breed aren't getting weaker as time goes by. It's as if natural selection were aiming us toward the ultimate modern man: which as far as I can tell is a tatooed, pigeon chested, spindle armed, lip pierced, green haired, whining weakling.

Jimmy Sutherland was something like 5'6" tall and 145 lbs. and used a pair of .577 Nitro rifles regulated for 750 grain bullets and 100 grains of cordite to kill more elephant than most of us have ever seen.

No kidding, but trust me when I say that anyone - or at least any healthy man of average strength - can handle a .458, or even something much more powerful, with ease.

Sorry Oday450, none of this is directed at you in particular, but put all this recoil nonsense out of your head and just do it - you'll be fine.

Oday,

To be sure, I am probably one of the least experienced here. But I have been shooting a 375H&H for about a year now and recently "acquired" a 458Wm and a 458Lott. I have a hard time telling the difference between the H&H and the WM but.....It is easy to tell when you pull the trigger on the Lott. But needless to say I get a "kick" ( pun intended ), or better to say, I enjoy shooting all of them. It just takes a little getting used to. The 458WM is not any more difficult for me to shoot than the 375H&H. By the way, if want to get rid of the Whitworth.........

Please read my thread on this forum (big Bore) on 458 (what velocities do you get with your .458WM?).

I have shot 375 for about ten years and 416Howell and 425 Express for nearly that long. All rifles weigh about 10-10.5 pounds. The 375s with 300 gr at 2500fps has 37# of free recoil. The 40's with 400 grain bullets at 2300fps are about my limit, and have a recoil of 44# of free recoil. The 458 with 500gr bullets at 2150fps has 50# of free recoil.

You don't want a "light" 458. Mine is 8.5#, and produces 58# of free recoil at 2060fps which is way to much for this old man. The 458 is a wonderful cartrdige, but it is not as versatile as the 40's or 375's. Kudude

the 375 is way the most versatile and is pretty forgiving from a recoil point of view. The 458 with all the modern powders and bullet weights is not bad, but with a full house load is a bit more severe as kudude says.
If you want to go 416, go Rigby.

If you found a nice 458 at a good price, I'd say pick it up -- it really doesn't recoil too badly, and if you don't like it, you can probably sell it for what you paid/at least close -- they're pretty popular.

The recoil's comparable to the 375, but w. a bigger hole. Stock fit would probably determine which is the more comfortable of the two for you to shoot.

I've got a 375, 416, and a 458 Lott, which I've shot win mag ammo out of...much more forgiving than the lott full loads.

Like many here, I don't think you'll have a problem with the 458 recoil once you realize it won't hurt you (as long as you've got enough space between your right eye and the scope). It will shock your senses a bit, but it won't actually be painful.

Unlike others here, I can definitely feel a difference between my 375 and my 458. Of course, they are both M70's and weigh the same. I can also tell that my remington 416 remy kicks a bit more than the 375 and less than teh 458.

Get a led sled for shooting at the range, and the recoil will be very tolerable. You won't notice it shooting in the field.

Another option, along with the win mag, 416, and 375 is the 458 Lott. You may not want to load it up to max, but it will give you the loading leeway to shoot 400 or 450 grained bullets at ~2,300 fps, mimicking a 416 load. You can also shoot win mag ammo out of it. I hardly ever shoot full 500 graines loads out of my Lott, but it does give me the option of loading 400 grained bullets at higher velocities. Just something to consider.

Thanks for all the input - I've just purchased a like new Whitworth in 458 Win. As soon as I can load up or find ammo I'll take it to the range and try it out. The decision was made based on the thoughts here as well as the just read comment on selling it if it doesn't work out.

I'm not afraid of the recoil as I have some experience with the 375s but it was something to think about when never having fired one before. I don't anticipate it will be much worse than a 12 gauge O/U with 3 inch mag shells.

In any case, if all goes well at the range, I may report back with an opinion. I also plan to have the action glass bedded before a lot of shooting to protect the wood stock.

You may want to go ahead an pop the action out before you shoot it -- admittedly mine was an Interarms, but I had a couple small splits in mine that were able to be repaired -- also, you're cross-bolts may be fake -- not that important, though -- I'm sure you'll be happy w. it (and, if not, there are plenty of people here who would be...)

Whitworth (ar name) had his whitworth stock crack on a 458 Ackley I believe. Might get it bedded sooner rather than later.

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:
Oday,

To be sure, I am probably one of the least experienced here. But I have been shooting a 375H&H for about a year now and recently "acquired" a 458Wm and a 458Lott. I have a hard time telling the difference between the H&H and the WM but.....It is easy to tell when you pull the trigger on the Lott. But needless to say I get a "kick" ( pun intended ), or better to say, I enjoy shooting all of them. It just takes a little getting used to. The 458WM is not any more difficult for me to shoot than the 375H&H. By the way, if want to get rid of the Whitworth.........

I've been regularly shooting my .375 for two years, about 600 rounds per year average. A friend invited me to try his .458 Win. Both rifles weigh about the same. I could not discern any noticible difference between the two, using 450 & 500 grainers in the Win. If given the choice, I'd use the .458Win or particularly the Lott for buff, if you can shoot them equally as well as the .375.

quote:

Originally posted by Oday450:
Thanks for all the input - I've just purchased a like new Whitworth in 458 Win. As soon as I can load up or find ammo I'll take it to the range and try it out. The decision was made based on the thoughts here as well as the just read comment on selling it if it doesn't work out.

I'm not afraid of the recoil as I have some experience with the 375s but it was something to think about when never having fired one before. I don't anticipate it will be much worse than a 12 gauge O/U with 3 inch mag shells.

In any case, if all goes well at the range, I may report back with an opinion. I also plan to have the action glass bedded before a lot of shooting to protect the wood stock.

I have never shot a comparable weight 375H&H vs a 458wm one after another, the 458wm has always weighed at least a pound more. Regardless, I find the difference very notable and shooting a 375H&H after shooting a bit of 458wm full 500gr hunting loads to be similar to shooting a 308 or 30-06. But not vice versa.

You have picked a good comparison for recoil. I find shooting mag slugs out of my deer shotgun more unpleasant than my 458wm. And I can get used to the 458wm after a little bit of practice where the shotguns and slugs remain unpleasant.

I would suggest loading down the 458wm and working up to full loads, no reason not to work up.

BTW, the 458wm is my go to choice for cape buffalo or elephant hunting and I've killed quite a few with absolutely no performance issues and never felt I needed more.
My 500gr Woodleigh loads run 2145fps, 450gr flat nose loads run 2200fps, you will never need more.

Good luck and enjoy.

JPK

Oday450 - I just PMd you but it looks like you are already on it with the Whitworth .458 - great rifle & congrats!