The 500 Jeffery seems to have originated with Jeffery in 1927. Kynoch's 1928 specifications for the 500 Jeffery showed a 12.63 degree SEMI-ANGLE for the shoulder.

Schuler's 12.7 x 70 mm Schuler was first offered for sale in late 1928, and the RWS year 1940 specifications for this show a shoulder SEMI-ANGLE of 23.54 degrees.

A-Square claimed to be standardizing the 500 Jeffery for SAAMI in 1996 with a 20 degree SEMI-ANGLE.

The Romey Hybrid of 1997 has a 19.97 degree SEMI-ANGLE.

The 1998 Kynamco clarification seems to have been needed to make it official with CIP.

Kynamco's 1998 shoulder angle has been stated as 25 degrees and 16 minutes, but this is the CONE ANGLE for the shoulder.

This is the exact same thing as the 1928 specification for a 12.63 degree SEMI-ANGLE.

There can be only one 500 Jeffery, same as the 1927 original, and it has a 12.63 degree shoulder angle, as we commonly describe it here.

The CIP standard exists since 1998, and it is the same as the original "Olde English"/Roaring Twenties version.

BTW, there seems to be some evidence that the original 500 Jeffery was indeed loaded with Cordite, Craig Boddington in the A-Square manual was correct about that, though surely the Schuler has always had "flake powder."

With so many angles on the subject, will all of them fit in the same chamber. I have loaded ammo from Westley Richards, Kynock, and two others unnamed and they all feed and eject just fine. If one were to be building a new rifle which model would you use? One that fits the RCBS dies or one that fits the ammo from Westley Richards????? I imagine that there are more 500 Jeffery's and 505 Gibbs rifles being built now than ever in the past. Who's schematics should we use? I think that those of us on the forum should get together and try to standardise the case design, after all there are damn few builders of said rifles and once a common understanding is arrived at, the choices become less as well as the variables that prevent others from producing the guns. Once a standardised template is adopted then there should be no legal implications.

quote:

Originally posted by lb404:
I have loaded ammo from Westley Richards, Kynock, and two others unnamed and they all feed and eject just fine.

I am not sure which shoulder angle Heym uses in their .500 jeff rifles, but they misfire Kynoch ammo.

quote:

If one were to be building a new rifle which model would you use? One that fits the RCBS dies or one that fits the ammo from Westley Richards?????

WR ammo is Romney with is the hybrid specification. The best thing would be to get a reamer to the CIP spec which fits Kynoch ammo.

However, for a reloader who never plans to sell the rifle, it does not matter what the spec is as long as the chamber and dies match.

quote:

However, for a reloader who never plans to sell the rifle, it does not matter what the spec is as long as the chamber and dies match.

Simple for europeans: Lothar Walther, Heym and most custom rifles use Triebel reamers, so the chamber matches Triebel dies.

quote:

Originally posted by lb404:
With so many angles on the subject, will all of them fit in the same chamber. I have loaded ammo from Westley Richards, Kynock, and two others unnamed and they all feed and eject just fine. If one were to be building a new rifle which model would you use? One that fits the RCBS dies or one that fits the ammo from Westley Richards????? I imagine that there are more 500 Jeffery's and 505 Gibbs rifles being built now than ever in the past. Who's schematics should we use? I think that those of us on the forum should get together and try to standardise the case design, after all there are damn few builders of said rifles and once a common understanding is arrived at, the choices become less as well as the variables that prevent others from producing the guns. Once a standardised template is adopted then there should be no legal implications.

lb404,
No sense in trying to reinvent the wheel (500 Jeffery) AGAIN! CIP has already got the standards:

There is only one variety of 500 Jeffery by them, the rest are "wildcats," unless you want to accept the SAAMI specs of A-Square as version #2. The new CIP blessed chamber and brass are the same as the 1928 specs. Others may work in that chamber, but not smoothly, thus not reliable for a DGR.

If your rifle chamber and dies match, no problems, as 500grains and Norbert have said.

A 12.7 x 70 mm Schuler cartridge in a CIP 500 Jeffery chamber would be a no-go most likely, unless some big slop was involved somewhere.

There is a separate CIP spec for the Schuler. Only one 500 Jeffery: There can be only one.

I am hoping my NDFS dies are the CIP spec. They came from Jonathan Tomlinson's neighborhood, in York, IIRC.

Thanks to Jonathan for emailing me a drawing that was legible, showing that the new shoulder cone angle of 25 degrees and 16 minutes is the same as the old original 500 Jeffery: same as a semi-angle of 12.63 degrees.

Of course, when I build a 500 Jeffery, it will have to have a 1:10" twist barrel, same as my 500 A2 and 500 Mbogo.

I would specify the CIP 500 Jeffery chamber for any new 500 Jeffery. There can be only one. Otherwise you just get the right dies to match your wildcat.



Of course I am not recommending anyone build a 500 Jeffery, which is a short-necked-rebated-rimmed-too-fat tour de force for the jaded rifle looney.

I guess, after talking to Davenport, that the dies that RCBS makes for the Jeffery are really the Schuler chamber reamer therefore that is how he chambered my rifle. I know that the brass from Horneber works fine first time and also after fireforming. I also know that the Westley Richards ammunition is slightly different but still easy to feed. So technically, my rifle is a Schuler rifle not a 500 Jeffery. I think that it is bad that RCBS names their dies Jeffery when they are Schuler as it adds another layer of confusion to the deal.