Would a scoped double rifle in 450/400 with a scope in QD rings be a suitable all around rifle for an African hunt?

Yes. But not as good as a 375 Flanged Magnum with 235 and a 300 gr Woodleighs.

Yes it is. I have been using a scoped 450-400 Harrison and Hussey for 20+ years. 2019 took 16 plains game and one Cape buffalo, ranges from 30 to a measured 214 yards. Buffalo was stopped with two shots, all plains game with one.

the 450-400 has also taken leopard, lion, hippo croc, cape and water buffalo, more plains game, whitetail and two dozen caribou in Alaska. It has been my main hunting rifle for over two decades.

Cal

quote:

Originally posted by pacecars:
Would a scoped double rifle in 450/400 with a scope in QD rings be a suitable all around rifle for an African hunt?

Absolutely,just shoot a lot to get ready,get to really know your gun

Yes! I used a custom Ruger No.1 in .450/400-3" exclusively during my trip to Zimbabwe where it accounted for two buffalo and plains game ranging from kudu to small antelope. I used 400-grain Swift A-Frames and they worked as well on buffalo as they did on the smaller animals. The Ruger is scope with a Leopold 1.5-5 VX3 and had plenty of magnification.

Not as good as a scoped .416 caliber magazine rifle.

Mike, thats kinda a Ford V/S Chevy decision. I love both those calibres. It comes to personal choice.

My scoped/RMR/open sights 450-400 Searcy double rifle has been the cat's meow in Africa on dangerous and plains game. I also have thoroughly enjoyed my Searcy 375 Flanged, shooting various game in Africa as well. It has the very same set up-iron sights, RMR or scope.

The bottom line is its your hunt to enjoy so knock yer lights out, it will get you by..

Personally I would not even consider it, Id take a back up scoped bolt rifle and if you don't, you will be saying to yourself, "what was I thinking" thats what happened to me on one trip with "Sweet Thang," my all time best double..They just don't really have the range in some cases..cost me a fantastic tropy, maybe world class but we will never know.

I just got back from Namibia - PG. Brought a nice custom No.1 in 450/400 and shot an eland and blue wildebeest. 400 gr. Swift A-frames handloads performed very well. But...knowing my limitations with iron sights, I also brought along a scoped 375 H&H. That accounted for a giraffe and another blue wildebeest.

I found that compromise with a two gun safari to be just about perfect. Most shots were <100 yds but I did have some reach with the scope if needed.

Pick whatever you want to hunt most with and know your self-imposed limitations. If you're good with that you'll have a great trip

pacecars,

I agree with Ray 100%. Do try to do it all with your double but have a scoped 375 as back up. One of the crew will be happy to carry it for you should you need it. When that 45 inch sable shows himself across the Dambo at 300 yards you won't be worrying if your rifle is up to it.

Mark

I have gone to break open single shot rifles with switch barrels for everything including cape buffalo.
I like it.

Well, I am with Ray on this .. Doubles aren't known for distance work - though one could have the scope set for one barrel for distance -- and lots of practice.

So, the answer, as always, is, it depends - are you going for Buffalo, but want to be able to take plains game as it happens, or are you going after Kudo, but want to have the option for Lion?

I disagree with Ray, Mark, and Jeff 100%.

Like Cal, as a double rifle aficionado, I've done several safaris with 2 doubles ... one an open sighted 500NE and the other a scoped 9.3x74R. I've taken numerous animals with the scoped 9.3 at ranges of well in excess of 150 yards and a couple a little over 250. That's about as far as I want to shoot at anything in Africa short of some speciality species. And NO, I didn't set it up to only shoot one barrel at distance. It took some work but I developed a good load that works at distance with both barrels, putting both within about a 2" circle at 100 yards if I do my part. I even took my 2012 lion with this rifle / scope set up.

Posted before but here are a couple of videos showing this double rifle in action at distance. I see no reason why a scoped 450/400 couldn't be just as effective.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xf4V1XXlY6A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InInjk2NCaw

If you love doubles like I do, and want to hunt with one exclusively, I say go for it. Yea, we all know a "scoped 375 is your best bet", especially for whacking and stacking, but once you've done a couple of safaris and shot most of what you want, there's no reason not to experiment with other weapon choices that you find more engaging.

It's a personal choice,you should always hunt with a gun of your choice,I have plenty of firearms,but a scoped 375 is not one of them ,
I hunt mostly with Double rifles,it's my preference,I enjoy it,six trips to Africa,plenty of pigs down south,know your gun,practice,don't let the 375'ers belittle your Double rifle

the good news is, there's no forced choice.

and strong opinions make great horse races

As long as you understand the limitations of the relatively low velocity round, there is no reason that a .450/.400 cannot be a good one gun for Safari.

Not my choice of way to go, but it has killed pretty much everything from duiker to elephant, so go for it.

My Zoli 450/400 O&U with a scope works well from the muzzle to well over 300 yards.

Yes, but a double with a scope is incest and child molestations gentlemen, The higher power of Red Gods intended for hunters to use irons on a double... did not you know that??

I have 0 experience hunting in Africa. A double sounds sufficient though.
If a charging buff comes at you at 20 yards, would the scope be a hinderance for a couple quick shots if needed? Would it be a good idea to leave the scope off until a longer shot is needed?
I use a single shot for hogs and deer. But, a charging buff or ele is a different game. Just curious as to what the 'doers' have to say as usual.
CB

I love doubles and allways had one, no scope because I use a double as it was intended to be used. I limit it to 100 yards plus or minus 25 yds. Only on the internet have I seen this challanged in my 40 plus years of hunting Africa as common since has held true with 99% of my hunters with doubles, they all had two rifles and double ad a bolt gun as a rule..

My opine is thats the logical approach to hunting Africa, the rest is BS conversation in that its your safari, take what you want, the results are yours and yours alone..

Off to Namibia for eland late next week. Will pick up a Bailey Bradshaw rising bite double with 450-400 barrels on the 19th and load up 40 rounds of Hornady DGX using Woodleigh data for IMR4350.

Reckon my 77 year-old eyes will necessitate using either a scope or, perhaps, a reflex red dot. The terrain will make maximum shots at likely no more than 150 yards. Not sure if the scope will change the barrel harmonics so much that irons or a reflex site accuracy will be compromised. Expect to find out at the range in the Namibian game farm.

Might have some pix eventually.

Regards, Tim

Tim, have a wonderful hunt. I assume your PH will be able to range the game for you, which should make it pretty straightforward to be effective with your .450-400. Eland you say? Darn.

What a lot forget about Africa is that like the rest of the world the vegetation is very different where ever you go.

So take Namibia for example - you have a mix of wide open plains, with bits of scrub, but mostly wide open spaces. But into the mountainous bits, its more like working through woodland, but instead of trees you are go rocks and scrub. Go further North and you are into Mopane and Acasia woodland. Zambia and Zimbabwe - again lots of Brachastesia woodland on the High Veldt, becoming thick scrub on the lower ground. In this sort of scrub your own only chances will be up close.

And it also depends on time of year. What is clear and open in the dry season, especially once all the grass has died down can be an impenetrable jungle in the wet.

I would research carefully where you are going to hunt - Google earth well worth a look as you can see the vegetation etc. But nothing better than talking to those who you will be hunting with.

For longer range shots with a double with a scope I would treat it as a single barreled rifle. Really get to know how it shoots with your preferred barrel, and whether it will consistently group well enough to allow you to take those longer shots.

Depending on your scope and the dependability of its turrets I would have a double rifle zero - with point of aim being the intersection of the two barrels, and then a single barrel zero where I would site the preferred barrel at say 150 yards and have that marked on the turret as well. Or simply sight the scope for long range use, and use the open sights for shorter range.

quote:

Originally posted by Heym SR20:


For longer range shots with a double with a scope I would treat it as a single barreled rifle. Really get to know how it shoots with your preferred barrel, and whether it will consistently group well enough to allow you to take those longer shots.

Depending on your scope and the dependability of its turrets I would have a double rifle zero - with point of aim being the intersection of the two barrels, and then a single barrel zero where I would site the preferred barrel at say 150 yards and have that marked on the turret as well. Or simply sight the scope for long range use, and use the open sights for shorter range.

That's certainly an easy way to do it, but it's not necessary. A proper regulated load will shoot parallel with only the individual barrel's "GROUPS" intersecting. It's not always easy to refine a load to that level, but it is possible as I demonstrated with my 9.3x74R described above.

I could have saved myself a lot, and I do mean, A LOT of trouble treating the rifle as a single shot with the scope on but I wanted it to be a 2 shot rifle at distance. It's never going to be a MOA rifle with both barrels. For that matter, it's probably not a MOA rifle with a single barrel, but for hunting purposes, I have no problem shooting either barrel out to past 250 yards at game. I've done it and it works fine. I'm not really much for shooting beyond that range at an animal anyway and to be honest, I prefer 150 yards and less.

There is no reason a 450/400 can't be scoped and get both barrels to shoot to hunting accuracy requirements out to a couple of hundred yards. If you're not a reloader, I don't know. But if you do load your own, working up a formula to wring out the best the rifle can offer is one of the benefits and a challenge worth pursuing! IMHO of course.

quote:

There is no reason a 450/400 can't be scoped and get both barrels to shoot to hunting accuracy requirements out to a couple of hundred yards.

Yep. I learned this years ago from one of my African PHs Lance Nesbitt. Took a cape buffalo with Lance in Dande South of the Zambezi Valley at over 200 yards with my scoped 450-400.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
I disagree with Ray, Mark, and Jeff 100%.

Like Cal, as a double rifle aficionado, I've done several safaris with 2 doubles ... one an open sighted 500NE and the other a scoped 9.3x74R. ...

That's exactly what I am going to be doing in a few days (leave on Wednesday for Zim). A Heym .500 NE with a Trijicon and a scoped Heym 9.3x74R. Heym did a great job on regulating the 9.374R for 100 meters with 286 grain Hornady spire point ammo. Below are a pair of 100 yard L/R groups and the factory target. I just need to do my part at Dante starting next week.

Very nice tanks. Have a great time on your double, double rifle safari.

WHATEVER ONE DOES, DO IT BEFORE YOU LEAVE FOR AFRICA!!

Tim, according to your post your going to see how it works with your PH as I understand it..if it fails, your in trouble as many are in the course of a season has been my experience, not to mention it sometimes takes more than 40 rounds to fix some of the problems, and it sucks to deal with adversity on safari...

If you intend to hunt mainly PG, I would say the scoped O/U double rifle in 375 H&H Flanged will suit you best.

Pix of my two replacements for the 450/400 (same 400 grain performance plus option of 300 grain North Forks).
1. Simpson Co Suhl .405 WCF double:


2, Winchester 1895 TD .405 WCF.



The 1895 .405 has already taken water buff with 300 grain NF and Cape Buff with 400 grain Woody.
Now time for the double to take some big stuff. It regulates both 300 and 400 grain bullets.

Both rifles are also very effective on medium sized game -maybe a little overkill.

I did a month of driven hunts in Portugal with my ruger No 1 450 400, had a blast and got lots of attention when people saw my ammo belt Question is, what is your goal? Trophies or a fun adventure?

It depends on your goals.

Some species may require shots of 200-350m in most places (Springbuck, Grey Rhebuck and Hertmann's Zebra for example). IF any of those are on the list, I would think you need a second rifle.

If you are only after dangerous game and the larger ungulates, and if you don't mind the possibility that you may need to pass up on a big trophy once in a while, go for it.

It is not the gun.

It is the man behind it.

And knowing how to use it.

Plenty of stories of rank idiots trying to hunt Africa posted here.

Hunt with whatever rifle you wish.

Yes I agree with Saeed on this, but is it wisdom or just common since..I suspect I could do the same thing witha Win 94 carbine in 30-30..I killed a number of elk with a 30-30, 25-35 and later a 250 Savage, and I know some PHs that killed elephant, Buffalo and Lion with an iron sighted 30-06 and another with a 270..NOt the best option, but do-able