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I did not want to Hi-Jack any of the other threads on double rifles, butt.... I think for the Modern Man the best double would be a Westley Richards Drop Lock Box Lock in 450/400 with a scope in QD mounts. The 450/400 is a great calibre, 400 grain softs and solids for the big stuff, 300 gr Hawks for deer sized game. A scope for leopard, lion and black bear over bait, and brown bear as well as plains game. Detachable locks [with spares] for foul weather hunting. It would be a great hunting rifle. A scope in QD mounts adds quite a bit to the hunting ability of a double rifle. I have used a scope on my 9,3x74R, it has made the 9,3 double one of the best medium bore hunting rifles on the planet. A scoped 450/400 or a 500/416 for that matter, would be a Great Hunting Rifle. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | ||
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There's no doubt you do a lot worse. I think I might want to at least look at a 375 Flanged in a rifle like you just described. You would not need another rifle to hunt anything in the World. | |||
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NE450NO2, with such a fine rifle what QD mounts do you like? A friend of mine uses a set of Recknagel's on his 9.3 Kreghoff. A sweet set up. Cheers, Adam C. | |||
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Sounds pretty close to perfect to me. Add a set of swappable shotgun barrels in 12 or 20 gauge, maybe a lighter rifled barrel set if they swing and point well and ....... . | |||
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I have fired only one double with a scope, and it was not for me. Maybe it would take a bit to get used to the feel. | |||
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NE 450 #2...so what scope would you recommend? 1.5-5X or a 2-7X? I am seriously thinking of getting one for my Kreighoff. I assume that you would not mount a shotgun scope. Peter. Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong; | |||
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Well a Westley Richards or a Heym with Drop locks would be perfect, but in 500/416 NE... No Scope on doubles! For that i have got my bolt action in 460 Weath. | |||
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Sorry, but I would chooses another caliber and Westley is one of my favorite makers. As for scoping a nice double, no way in hell! | |||
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Partially as a result of reading posts on AR for years, in December I ordered a Searcy PH in 450/400 with Talley rings. I am pretty excited about it. Is it true that a double can only be regulated for either open sights or a scope – not both? If that’s the case I will ask Butch to regulate for open sights and adjust the scope for one barrel only. Also what would you recommend for loading components? Can you use RL-15 in the 3 inch case without filler? Anyway, after I take delivery of the rifle I’ll post how the combination of scope and open sights work. Mike Chamberlain DRSS Member | |||
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Mike: No, there's no hard and fast rule. Some shoot fine with the scope on, and shoot fine with the sights when the scope is removed. And some won't do that. Personally, if I scoped a double, I would want it regulated with the scope. Then again, I wouldn't scope anything larger than .375, but that's just me. For loading components I use new Bell brass, which is no longer available, Woodleigh softs and solids, RL 15, Dacron fill, and Federal 215s. Avoid Bertram and A-Square brass if possible. Yes, RL 15 will work in this case without a filler, but I don't recommend it. Uniformity is much better with Dacron. ---------------------------------------------- "Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder." | |||
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Nothing wrong with a 500/416. I do like the 450/400 3 1/4". I like the long neck. The 400 Jeffery [450/400 3"] is probably a better case as it has a thicker rim. Either of the 3 are great. I like claw mounts, I would want the scope mounted low as possible. Something in the 1 to 5x would work. You could even have a second scope in the 1.5 to 6x range for 300 grain bullets for use on leopard and plains game, deer and pigs in the states etc. I have used a scoped 9,3x74R double quite a bit, and I have handled some big bore doubles that were properly scoped. I do not know why there is so much negativity about scoped doubles. Any calibre that is scoped in a bolt action can be scoped in a double with the same benefits. With a scope in QD mounjts you can put it on/take it off as the circumstances change. Sounds like a win/win to me. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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Mike SDounds like a good double set up to me. I would use filler with RL 15. As long as the filler, dacron or foam, is compressed youi will have no problems. Be sure and try some Hawk 300 grain bullets in your 400. They work great for deer and wild pigs, and would be just the thing for leopard over bait. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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Fungunner What calibre do you like better? DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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In 1973 I sold my WR .450-400 3-1/4" hand-detachable box lock to Don Kreycik, then of Edmonton, Alberta for $300. I don't think I have ever done a more stupid thing in my life. Mine did not have a scope, nor would I have wanted one for it. It performed just fine on numerous moose out in the Grand Cache & Swan Hills areas of Alberta, both of which were lands where one might see hair in the bush, only to find out it is UNHAPPY MOMMA Griz, with scared cub(s). I've also owned a good many other doubles, including a Holland's .375 Magnum Flanged. It was a bit (very small bit) lighter and therefore maybe easier to swing, but I personally much preferred the .400, and still do. I think you made a perfect choice, I'd just leave off the scope. If I was going to have two additional double rifles both would also be WR detachable box locks, one in something akin to a Super-Thirty (flanged), and the other a .470. I might die broke, but I'd die happy....and I'd never need a magazine rifle at all. My country gal's just a moonshiner's daughter, but I love her still. | |||
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Tony,have you tried either of the Hornady .411 300 grain bullets (flat and SP)? They're more available than the Hawks. I'm expecting a message from Cabelas this week that JJ has finishing prepping the cousin to Rusty and Mark's Hollis 450-400's. Looks like I'll be joining DRSS. Bob | |||
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Mr. Alberta: Next time you want to sell a WR double, I will give you $500 US for it and will come to your house to pick it up. There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
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Anybody here claiming to be a modern man? _________________________________ AR, where the hopeless, hysterical hypochondriacs of history become the nattering nabobs of negativisim. | |||
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Bill/Oregon - Gee, Bill, I'd hope if I ever had another WR double for sale in that price range, you'd not only give me the $500, come to my house to pick it up, AND bring along your wife to kiss me, but that you'd have the common decency to shoot me with it and put me out of my senile misery before you left for home [Grin]. My country gal's just a moonshiner's daughter, but I love her still. | |||
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Well, how about if I bring my Brittany to lick your ears instead? There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
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bobc My 450/400 3 1/4" uses .408 diameter bullets or I would try the Hornady 300 grainers. They would be a good choice in a .411 double. You will be VERY HAPPY with your 450/400. Wink... Here is a clue, if you are alive today you are a Modern Man.   DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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peter On my 9,3x74R Chapuis double I have 2 scopes sighted in in QD rings. A Leupold 2.5-8 with the heavy duplex, and a Swarovski 1.5-6x42 with the circle dot illuminated reticle. I really like the Swaro circle dot. For a 400/416 double I would pick the Swarovski 1.25-4 with the illuminated circle dot reticle. I might even have a second scope, a 1.5x6 Swaro sighted in with 300 grain bullets for leopard over bait. I just cannot under stand the negative feelings about a scope sighted double. If you would have a scoped sighted 375 or a 9,3x62, why not a scope on a 9,3x74R double? I have taken game to 300+ yards with my Chapuis [with scope] that I could not have hit with iron sights. If you would scope a 416 or a 404 bolt, why not a 450/400 or a 500/416 double rifle with a scope??? A properly mounted scope does not hurt the handling qualities of a double one bit. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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Thanks NE450 No 2! I was toying with the idea of a 2x7 Leupold. I can't afford the other stuff you mentioned!! However, I wasn't sure if I would have enough eye relief ie. if I could set the scope back far enough for the correct eye relief. Peter. Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong; | |||
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I don't know??? Not too many things finer than a good Brittany! | |||
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peter A 2x7 should work fine. If I remember correctly you are talking about a 500/416 Krieghoff. There are no flies on the 500/416 Krieghoff. It is a great hunting double rifle. I would have NO PROBLEM HUNTING WITH THE COMBI COCKING DEVICE on the Krieghoff. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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It's better to have a Double that you can see to shoot than try and shoot sights you cannot see in order to look cool or traditional. I would never scope my 404 though.  | |||
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It's better to have a Double that you can see to shoot than try and shoot sights you cannot see in order to look cool or traditional. I would never scope my 404 though. [/QUOTE]I don't find double rifles nearly as well balanced or as handy when equipped with a scope...that doesn't mean none of them could be, but then I've never seen one that was. Plus, I found a scoped double more awkward to carry and easier to damage the sight on. As I prefer to carry my own rifle, and don't relish ANY increase in possibility of a damaged sight or mount, and as I have never had a problem with visually picking up the iron sights on my doubles, I will continue to keep mine "scopeless". As far as seeing the sights, that's why personally I prefer a completely flat-topped rear standing sight leaf with a verticle platiunum line in the middle, and a largish bead front sight. Just rest the bead atop the line like a dotted "i". Actually, I prefer the older traditional "night" bead even better for a front sight. Certainly too big to be handy for 200+ yard shooting, but then that's not what I had "heavies" for. P.S.: All the above of mine is in reference to SxS doubles. I have only one O/U double right now, a 9.3x74-R, and it IS scoped. My country gal's just a moonshiner's daughter, but I love her still. | |||
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Alberta Canuck, I agree with you about the ballance, and change in the way a double is carried when a scope in mounted. Aslo on the irons you prefere! However, IMO, anyone who needs a scope to be able to shoot, is a fool if he doesn't scope his double rifle, regardless of chambering. This needs to be done properly, however! No scope should be placed on a hunting rifle that is used for "BITE-BACKS" unless it is an absolutely repeatable return to Zero, Quick change mounts & rings, mounted as low as is posible. Addtionally, the scope should have a very long eye relief, and be very light in weight, and have a very visable reticle, and wide field of vision ! Set up properly the rifle may be carried without the scope on board, untill the need for it arises. Exactly opposite to the bolt rifle the Iorns on a double are primary, with the scope a secondary, as needed sight! Doubles like 9.3X74R, 375H&H Flanged, and 450/400 3" double rifle all benefit greatly from a proper scope, with QD mounts, for special purposes like Bear, and cats over bait, with latter targets the addtion of a lighted reticle is a plus as well! I know a man who simply cannot shoot irons, and has a lighted scope mounted on a Heym 470NE double, and he is absolutely as quick with it as anyone I have ever seen, with that double rifle! In the final anlysis, it all boils down to individule taste, and there is no right, or wrong about it! ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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Mac- I don't disagree with anything you said in this quote. Was just expressing MY preferences, not suggesting anyone else is obliged to feel the same. I noted, my 9.3x74 IS scoped...but then, I really don't even like O/U doubles, either, and if the world was perfect and I could have only the things I really prefer, my 9.3x74 would be a SxS, still scopeless, and I would never have a shot over 100-150 yards.... Oh yes, I should also mention sometime my preference for green-eyed, red-haired, 23-year-old Vixens, too.....[grin] My country gal's just a moonshiner's daughter, but I love her still. | |||
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I like the 470 and the 476 Westley.
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