I have been thinking about a CZ in 404J the last couple months. The factory load was a 400gr bullet at 2150fps. Not very exciting, since I can replicate that with a cast bullet in my 416 Rigby CZ. I have seen references to a "modern" loading at about 2300fps; right there with the Rigby.
What say you with your 404J loads?

Rich
Buff Killer

My load pushed a woodliegh 400 gr at 2185 fps. I didn't push it further, but had room for more powder so I could have kicked it up. Unfortunately I am not at home so I don't have the exact load data at hand, but I don't see a problem with loading the 404j hotter. Having said that, at 2185 it worked beautifully on the buffalo I shot with it.

80 grains of IMR4320 behind a 400 grain woodleigh soft or solid gives me just over 2300 fps.

Rich, stick with the four one six.

404

Rich,

I think Hornady lists the new loads they are coming out with at 2350 fps. So you even have it in a factory load if you want.

BigB

RWS factory ammo (now loaded with woodleighs) chronoed 2315fps out of my 22" H&H.

Norma loads a 450grn woodleigh at 2150fps.

Could esily get 2350fps with Barnes solids (old ones with full shank) and South African S365 powder so you have got to be able to do that.

Do remember that factory ammo from Europe is limited by law to 43000psi and not the 50,000 odd that .416 rem is rated to. If you load to similar pressures in a modern rifle...the bigger case capacity and larger base area (better piston effect) should mean that you can drive a 400grn bullet at arround 2500fps. The Norma African PH load gives only 41,000PSI!

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
I have been thinking about a CZ in 404J the last couple months. The factory load was a 400gr bullet at 2150fps. Not very exciting, since I can replicate that with a cast bullet in my 416 Rigby CZ. I have seen references to a "modern" loading at about 2300fps; right there with the Rigby.
What say you with your 404J loads?

Rich
Buff Killer

I have both a .404 and a 416, pretty similar really,, my thought if you want a new CZ--get a 500Jeff or 505 Gibbs or some other more differing calibre--but it is your money.

It's no trick to get 400gr @ 2300fps in my 23"bbl. I like RL19 & IMR4831. Idoubt the game notices the extra 50-75fps, but my shoulder does I have settled on 2250fps for 380gr-400gr bullets.

I have a 416. Now, this is kinda too bad about Hornady 404 loads. I was thinking of a 404 as a bear rifle. With affordable Hornady ammo. Thinking only, nothing serious.

The beauty of the Jeff (IMHO)was 400 grain bullet at 375HH + power. Lighter gun than the 5000 ft-lbs Rigbys. A nitch in my mind only, I guess.

quote:

Originally posted by fourbore:
I have a 416. Now, this is kinda too bad about Hornady 404 loads. I was thinking of a 404 as a bear rifle. With affordable Hornady ammo. Thinking only, nothing serious.

The beauty of the Jeff (IMHO)was 400 grain bullet at 375HH + power. Lighter gun than the 5000 ft-lbs Rigbys. A nitch in my mind only, I guess.

I think the only practical diff. between the 404j & the 416R, is the slightly smaller/lighter actions. Yo can of course load the 416R to 416Wby vel. but why?

I really want a 404j in a switch barrel. (i.e. dakota travler or hs precision). Anyone know what other caliber could be based off the same action. Maybe 308 norma, 300 weatherby/win?

308 Norma, 300Wby/Win: Have .532" max rim and belt diameter.
So do the 300, 338, 375RUM.
It can work, sloppily, but, the 404 Jeffery is about .010" bigger rim and beltless/rimless.

You could do any of the Dakota cartridges that are based on the 404 Jeffery, but all are "short" except the 416 Dakota, which is too similar to the 404 Jeffery to make sense as a switch barrel option.
Still you might do well with one of the 2.5" to 2.570"-cased Dakota "short" cartridges in the Jeffery full length box.
Ammo Encyclopedia specifies a 3.5299" COL max for some of them.
Typos abound.
That requires a 3.6" box, same as the 404 Jeffery:
7mm, 300, 338, 375, 404.

You could do a wildcat:
Like the 450 G&A, or 450 Vincent Long.
Or,
.375/404 Jeffery ala Saeed?
.358/404
.338/404
.308/404

The long bullets available in .338, .308, and 7mm would have plenty of room to play with the 404 Jeffery box, on the Dakota proprietary versions.
Ought to feed well too, if the 404 Jeffery does.

If you are set on a 300 to go with the 404 Jeffery,
seems the best would be the 300 Dakota, with 2.5" case,
if you do not want to do the wildcatting yourself

I have both the .416 Rigby and a .404 J. I load the .416, 400 gr. with 103 grs. H4831SC and the .404, 400 gr. with 94 grs. of the same powder. Chronographed velocities average about .2350 fps in the .404 J and I haven't chronographed the .416 but, I'll bet they're fairly similar maybe the .416 outdoing the .404 by 50 fps or so.

My 404 Jeffery Load is the 380-grain Northfork FP or SP at 2525 fps using Varget. Lesser charge of Varget with any 400 grainer: 2400 fps is easy.

My .416 Rigby load is the 380-grain GSC FN at 2509 fps using H4831.
Same charge with any other 400-grainer: 2450 to 2475 fps.

24" barrels all.

Lots of info on all these loads with a search.

Carlos

You could partner your .404 with any of the new Blaser magnum rounds. They are all based on the .404. They do a .375 Blaser (which I don't particularly care for). The .338 and 7mm are both turning in exceptional accuracy if chambers are cut correctly to CIP specification (it is all in the throat!)

Make a nice line up - 7mm .338 and .404- Any game, any where.

Where are the specifics?
Blaser site:

Blaser Magnum
New generation of cartridges by Blaser and Norma



7mm Blaser Magnum
.300 Blaser Magnum

.338 Blaser Magnum
.375 Blaser Magnum

In cooperation with Norma, Blaser has developed a brand new generation of high-performance cartridges. No existing calibres were copied. Instead, the latest ammunition technology was applied to achieve the optimum performance in each calibre group. A pleasant change in the history of ammunition: Both high-quality manufacturers were equally keen to avoid any compromises with the production of their joint venture.

The product development was determined by the following key factors:



notably increased precision values
higher performance in terms of energy and speed at low gas pressure
more comfortable recoil effects
enhanced reliability
perfectly suitable for reloading

Thanks to an optimised cartridge geometry, stable cartridge base and modern powder types together with 4-groove barrel profiles and adapted twist rates, all development objectives have been achieved.
To start with, Blaser will distribute loads with NolserAccubond and Barnes TSX cartridges whereas Norma will offer additional loads under their own company label.
All Blaser R93 models can now be ordered in the new calibres. Delivery of rifles and cartridges starts from August 2009.
A detailed brochure containing more information and specifications is available at Blaser from May 2009.



NewsBlaser-Cup 2009 – die Finalisten stehen festBlaser Magnum R93 iC – Illumination Control Blaser Product ConfiguratorBlaser Newsletter Blaser > Home > Blaser Magnum
Imprint | Contact | Login | NewsletterBlaser Jagdwaffen GmbH · Ziegelstadel 1 · 88316 Isny, Germany · Tel.: +49 (0) 75 62 - 702 0 · contact(at)blaser.de · www.blaser.de

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
Rich, stick with the four one six.

+1,
Rich I agree with MR, unless you just have to have a 404J it will with modern loadings safely get 2300 but that makes the 416R and 404J ballistic cousins (of course you can send the 416R into the velocity stratisphere why?) I'd opt for the 500J or the 505Gibbs in that order, get yourself a real bigbore, but then again you might just have to get the 404J because it's a classic caliber.

quote:

Originally posted by CARLOSTHEJACKAL:
I really want a 404j in a switch barrel. (i.e. dakota travler or hs precision). Anyone know what other caliber could be based off the same action. Maybe 308 norma, 300 weatherby/win?

I have a Harris talon with 404, .300 RUM.
Harris is out of business, but any of the RUMs can work together with the .404.
Sounds like thr new Blasers are in that same category,

Dirk:

I have both a .404 and a .416 Rigby. One of the cool things about the .404 is that it is indeed such a classic caliber and like the 450/400 it will dispatch most African game even when loaded to traditional velocity and like the 450/400, it does that at very modest recoil. When I first got my .404, I started loading it with a 400 grain Woodleigh to around 2260 fps. Even at that velocity, pressures are very modest. However, I decided that since I already had a Rigby I wanted to keep the .404 a .404 so to speak. I worked up a load with IMR 4831 that runs about 2150 fps. It is just a joy to shoot and essentially duplicates the original ballistics. Maybe one of the reasons I like this caliber is because I took my first bison with this gun and it was a huge trophy bull. It worked great.

If you have a .416 Rigby do you really "need" a .404? Probably not but that never stopped me before

Dave

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
Dirk:

I have both a .404 and a .416 Rigby. One of the cool things about the .404 is that it is indeed such a classic caliber and like the 450/400 it will dispatch most African game even when loaded to traditional velocity and like the 450/400, it does that at very modest recoil. When I first got my .404, I started loading it with a 400 grain Woodleigh to around 2260 fps. Even at that velocity, pressures are very modest. However, I decided that since I already had a Rigby I wanted to keep the .404 a .404 so to speak. I worked up a load with IMR 4831 that runs about 2150 fps. It is just a joy to shoot and essentially duplicates the original ballistics. Maybe one of the reasons I like this caliber is because I took my first bison with this gun and it was a huge trophy bull. It worked great.

If you have a .416 Rigby do you really "need" a .404? Probably not but that never stopped me before

Dave

The 404j is really a good killer w/ a good bullet @ 2250fps+/-. The right bullet is recovered from my buff. The left bullet from wetpack @ 2250fps impact vel. The impact vel. on the buff was about 2150fps. The bullet was found balled up in the hide on the far side. I managed to just miss the shoulder, but he went down in less than 50yds.

quote:

Originally posted by dirklawyer:

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
Rich, stick with the four one six.

+1,
Rich I agree with MR, unless you just have to have a 404J it will with modern loadings safely get 2300 but that makes the 416R and 404J ballistic cousins (of course you can send the 416R into the velocity stratisphere why?) I'd opt for the 500J or the 505Gibbs in that order, get yourself a real bigbore, but then again you might just have to get the 404J because it's a classic caliber.

.

Rich has got some real big bores ... Bigger than I would want to shoot ..... It is odd about these 2 old calibers , one has such a sharp shoulder it is easy to ruin brass and the other has such a shallow shoulder the potential for a mis fire is there ....

quote:

Originally posted by DuggaBoye:\QUOTE]
I have a Harris talon with 404, .300 RUM.
Harris is out of business, but any of the RUMs can work together with the .404.
Sounds like thr new Blasers are in that same category,

Just for information. I talked to a guy at Mauser USA in San Antonio TX. He also imports Blasers. I asked him about Blaser importing their new Blaser Magnum rounds (7mm BM,338BM). He stated that these rounds would not be imported into the US due to the already trademarked blaser name (different company) on small arms ammo.

Thats a REAL bummer imo!

In today's market, expect I Norma will fill the gap on the ammo ,unless restricted by contract.

As to the barrels, importers have always managed to circumvent the standard supply chains in the past, perhaps not as easy now, but ,if there's a market,there's a suppler.