I am in the process(ordered today) of getting a new Winchester M-70 in 375h&h ready for my first African hunt. The hunt will be in July 2006 so I have plenty of time to work out the dings. I will be using this rifle for buffalo and plains game.

I am relatively new to this site but I have follwed threads in the archives and some recent about the pros and cons of factory rifles which caliber, rings and bases, ect. It appears the Leupold VX-III gets the most support here. Do I want the 1.5-5x20mm or the 1.75-6x32mm? Which reticle do you guys prefer?

I have also seen several posts that indicate I should immediately take the gun to a competent gunsmith for tune up and barrel glassing. Just about as many other posts say take it to the range and shoot which makes sense to me and then make up your mind.

These 59 year old bi-focal eyes hope there is never a reason to take the scope off and shoot open sights. I generally wear soft contacts while hunting which at least gets rid of dirty or fogged up glasses at the wrong time. I know what I can do with a scope and will have myself and this rifle performing adequately. What would be reasonable for open sights and to what range?

Do any of you use the Leupold Alumina intensifier kit?

I am really glad to have found the AR site. It has been a great source of information for me and I am sure many others.Thank You.

I recently got a Winchester classic in 375 H&H for alaskan big game hunting, bears and moose mainly. I would strongly suggest you take a look at the brockmans pop up peep scope mounts. It uses talley quick detachable scope rings. I have been very impressed with this setup. The peep is very quick to aquire and I can easily keep shots into 2-3" at 100 yards with it. I'm sure I could do even better with a different front sight, a bead front sight isn't exactly a precise aiming tool. I went with a 3-12 burris black diamond because of the chance for shots at carabou and moose out to 300+ yards.

Xgrunt,
For comparison, just take a look at the Nikon 1.5x6, 30mm Gold series. I have one on my .375 h&H and it's held up well with some hard trips. Comparatively, it will be a little heavier than the smaller mm scopes but it is a quality scope in all regards. When looking for a scope for my rifle I did a stack test test with the high end ones and that's what shook out for me. Money was not a consideration in this.

quote:

30mm

_________

Apologies, brain fart here. The scope is a 42mm, not 30mm

xgrunt,

I have used the 1.75X6 on my .375 and .416 for several years. Since I use my .375 mostly for plains game, on this last safari I switched my scope on the .375 to 2.5X8 Leupold. I like the little extra magnification and 2.5 is not too much when hunting buffalo. Remember, on the average safari, you will only shoot one buffalo (at close range) but you will shoot many plains game (at varying ranges), so I like the flexibility of a little more magnification.

Regards,

Terry

Regardless of which scope you finally settle on, if the rifle has express/iron sights get a set of Tally quick detach scope rings and be sure to practice without the scope befroe you go.

Happy hunting. Keep us posted on the success of your trip.

Who are using as a PH?

xgrunt,

Sounds like you have the makings of a good rifle. Nothing wrong with taking it to a good smith and getting the trigger done, bedding and etc, feeding checked.

As far as the scope, lots of good scopes to choice from. I like the 30 mm Nikon Monarch Gold scopes, as I have one in 2x7 on one of my 375's. The straight tube 30 mm Kahles and Swarofski prof. scopes are nice also, I think they are 1.5x4 or something like that. I would also look at the Burris Safari, I think its a good choice for a 375. I don't use the Tally QD's but they are nice rings, I use the Warne QD's, they are good also.

I like the 1x4 and 1.5x5 Leupolds on all dangerous game rifles...I like that 20 MM objective for all hunts where a rifle may be required to take some abuse...they don't get knocked off zero like a big belled scope...besides I have never seen an instance where 4X was not enough scope in any hunting big game hunting situation...I can get a perfectly clear picture of the animal at up to 1000 yards with a 2.5x power scope and minus magnified wobble, heat waves, and all the problems that accompany large scopes...All that is required is to put the cross hair on the animal, not count the ticks in his ear....

I have a 1-4x Leupy and a 1.75-6x and have had a 1.5-5x.
For the 375 H&H I would use the 1.5-5x. The VIII are, as the price indicates, better than the VII. The eye relief on the 1.5-5x is very good.
I prefer the German no4 reticle, then the plex.

Thanks for all the good advice. So far it looks as if I am in the ballpark. I am leaning toward the Leupold 1.75-6x32. I think this may give a litle more in light gathering ability. Dungbeetle, I have the Nikon gold you mentioned on my 338win mag. which I used on a trip to the Brooks Range for Grizzly and Caribou. It is a good scope, but a little too bulky for my Africa gun.

The 1.75 comes in Duplex,Heavy duplex, and wide duplex. I lean toward a duplex reticle. Any comments?

Which one Talley or Warne QD's? I have never had a removable scope. This will take a little confidence building at the range to convince me you can go back to zero at the flip of a lever. I know snugged in with a tool.

Ray, I agree magnification to a point is over rated. A deer sized animal out to a couple of hundred yards 2x. 300 yards 4x-6x is adequate. As Mel Gibson said aim small miss small.

The talley rings are lighter but they both work pretty much the same. The talley bases are also smaller and lighter but just as strong.

I've mounted one of the 1.75-6x scopes on my .375H&H and have been very happy with it. The gun now goes elk hunting with me on the western highlands of Colorado where the ranges can get pretty long. Don't want a higher powered scope. This is strange as I used to be one of those with 3-9x, 4-12x, and 4.5-14 scopes on my rifles.

go with Leupy 1.5-5 x 20 or stick with a good Nikon fixed 4x, you wont probably wont need any more magnification on a 375.

jus my 2 $

Regards,


Zubin

I have a Leupold VariX III 1.5-5x20 Heavy Duplex on my .375 Hoot & Holler.

I have a 1-4 on my cz .375 but would be just as happy with a 2-7 or 3-9 leupold....may be happier

i put a Zeiss Conquest on mine with Leupold rings and base (2 piece). i had a frustrating situation arise that had me all flustered for a while though. i tried 2 different bases/ rings combinations and had the same problem.....i could not get the elevation to zero. i was all the way up and still hitting several inches low. i finally took the rifle to a gunsmith here in Oklahoma and he told me that if i milled the front base down it would solve the problem. he and i checked it in his shop and sure enough, the front base was too high by quite a bit. so much so that when the scope was optically centered, the bullet was hitting about 32 inches low at 100 yards. he milled off 0.030" from the front base, shortened the screws, re-attached it, and guess what......the scope now is right on and still only 4 clicks from its optical center. i suppose an option would have been to use the Burris pos-align rings and inserts. but i chose to fix the mount instead.

I have always used Leupold Vari-X III 2.5x-8x scopes on my .375s, and have been VERY satisfied, at both close range and medium range, in good light and bad.

George

On the medium bores (375,416,404J) I have been pleased with the 1.75-6 Leupold. Anything bigger that I scope gets a fixed 2.5 Leupold. You just don’t need more.

Plenty of magnification at 6X for any plains game you would shoot with any of those calibers but fast to get on target at 1.75X.

IMO a good fitting stock is the key to fast alignment (eye to scope). You should be able to shoulder the gun with your eyes closed and then open them and be looking thru the scope. No extra movement to get it all to be clear and no blind spots in the field of view.

I used a 1-3x20 Weaver on the 375HH we used on our latest trip. It worked very well and I carried a 2.5x20 Weaver as a back up. I have used lots of these scopes on heavy rifles with no problems. They are a nice, clear scope.


On the 9.3, which is virtually identical, I used a Leupold 1.5-5 with the ilum circle/dot reticle. It was all the scope I needed out to 250yds and was equally useful at 50yds. Never took it off 5x. I would not get the circle/dot again; however, because it is less precise than a cross hair. Kudude

I'm not going to say too much for the next 48 hours for fear of jinxing me, but I think I bought a 375 H&H this morning. I've given instructions to mount a Leupold VX-III 1.75X6 (32mm) if it arrives.

It never ceases to amaze me how scope high power oreinted the younger generation is...It is truly a mental chore for them to go below the 6X and some insist on 4x16s on feather weight rifles and such as that...It is truly the modern hunters "binky", his pacifier, his need to shoot well when in fact he is a product of manufacturintg hype and high dollar spending...

There is absolutly no need for any power over 4X in big game hunting...all one does it put the X on the target and yank the trigger!

I agree that we sometimes use much more scope power then we need. The only shot I have lost was because I had my 2x7 on 7 power and couldn't find a Vall rhebock fast enough. On a rifle that might be used on DG I like a fixed power scope as I don't want it accidently on the wrong power in an emergency. I went through 3 variables on my 458 lott before I switched to a fixed 2.5 power Leuplod. On my 375 I currently have a 1X4 Leupold but will probably go to a fixed 2.5. The 2.5 is fine up to at least 300 yds.

465H&H

I used 2.5 x 8 on my .375, my sons used 1.75x6 on thiers. All Leupold VX III's. We had not trouble. I used 3.5x10 on the .300 win mag.
No problems.

Mr Atkinson,
In broad terms I agree with what you say, but I put the upper limit at 6x. The extra bit of magnification, I find, helps with accurately placing a shot. However I can recall having felt the need to do so just the once. That one shot was worth having that extra bit of power.

There is a 3-9x on my 222 pesky buster, every time I look through it it's like looking at the TV, glad to say the picture is better and thank the Lord no adverts.



I'm pink therefore I'm Spam

I like higher power because my eyes aren't what they used to be, plus I don't own a spotting scope.

If I hunt something that isn't going to hunt me I don't think you can have too much scope, as long as it is a variable. I use the high power to evaluate game. I determined an elk bull was a 6X6 a few years ago. I also noted an ivory tip broken off a kudu horn which made me change targets on another hunt.

I think a big variable is the most versatile set of optics you can own. I'm conscious enough to keep it dialed to the right setting.

I agree a varmint rifle should have more power, but again I only use a 3x9 or perhaps a 4x12 to stay away from mirage...

My main concern with big varibles is they are always getting wacked out of zero on Safaris..Happens every year...sight one in and give that big bell a wack with your hand and the zero will change, not so a 20 MM objective that protrudes an inch forward of the front ring, then there is the saddle scabbard issue to deal with, big scopes are just not my cup of tea, but I don't begrudge anyone freedom of choice..

xgrunt,

Have you looked at the Bushnell Elite 4200? I see a lot of Leupold fans here, and that's fine. They are good scopes, but I think the Bushnells have a slight edge. They are super clear, durable, and they have Rainguard. I know a 4200 is going on my rifle for my first safari (Lion/Cape Buffalo 2007).

I have a Bushnell Elite 3200 with FireFly reticle in 1.5x4.5 ( I think thats the magnification) on my 375 H&H T/C Encore. It's great for hogs and deer at dusk.

It has served me well - 200+ rounds through it and no problems at all. It has been on many flights and hunts. It seems to be a great scope.

This is the Baush & Lomb line purchased by Bushnell a few years ago. I know they are not expensive, but who says they have to be?

I used a 1.5-5x20 on Tally rings for my plainsgame hunt. A lot of the shots I had were very long and I really wish I had more scope power. I think a 2.5-8 or 3-9 would have been much better. For DG I will use the 1.5-5 but the next time I hunt plainsgame I will have more scope power. Good luck. Joe

The 1.5x5 Leupold or the 1.75x6 are both good scopes. I have both with the Heavy Duplex.
However my current favorite scope for your application is the Swarovski 1.5-6x42 with the Circke Dot illuminated reticle.
I have that scope on my 9,3x74R double rifle.

I would strongly recommend the heavy duplex versus the standard duplex. If you're shooting fast, you can't be looking for the reticle if you're trying to avoid being lunch.

The Leupies are good scopes. I have the 1.5-5 on my .416 Rigby. Also have an S+B 1.5-6 rail mount on my 9,3x74R Chapuis ... but it is a very expensive scope.

The Leupold 1.75x6 and the 2.5x8 are both good choices and are both physically the same size. At the low end, I doubt, at least from my experience with them, that you will be able to tell much difference, but at the higher setting, for longer shots, the extra 2x is nice.
The 1.5x5 is a classic, durable and compact and would be a great choice. You can't go wrong with any of the above, in my opinion. I was lucky enough to come across an old long tube Leupold fixed 3x that is going on the .458 Lott that I am finishing up. Good Luck!

Lee440,
The old Leupold 3xs are a great scope and I have them on several of my big bore rifles...

It amazes me that one thinks he can improve his shooting of big game with power magnification, you cannot...all you have to do on big game is put the cross hair on his shoulder, and it makes no difference how big the animal looks in the scope..that x is still in the same spot...

At the risk of being criticized for being a wimp for higher power scopes, I like a variable that goes up to 6x. I have found even with big animals like buffalo, your PH is looking at the buff with 10x binocs and he can see so much more detail than I can with a 4x-20mm. I think it can make a big difference in shot placement if you can see a bit more detail of the animal, particularly when it is obscured by bush and foliage. I have 1-4, 1.5-5, 1.5-6 and larger variables. My favorite is a 1.5-6 with the "German" 4a reticle. It is fast on running game and the 6x gives me enough detail to determine the angle on animals in brush. In the stalking/walking around mode I usually have it set on 2x or 3x.

quote:

There is absolutly no need for any power over 4X in big game hunting...all one does is put the X on the target and yank the trigger!

-Ray

And as Jeff Cooper says, all you have to do to play the piano well is hit the right keys at the right time. Nothin' to it!

I agree w/Ray, I've got a 1.5-6 zeiss on my ruger that usaully stays set on 2x and has never been a limitation. When it comes to hunting rather than the benchrest, it doesn't make much difference.

Bob

Not because I just bought one, but because it meets all the opinions given above......buy the Leupold 1.75x6 in Matte/Heavy Duplex. There you have it.

You can't be accused of having too little power because the low-end is really 1.9 not 1.75. You can't be accused of having too much power because high-end is really 5.6 not 6. (Check the spec.s)

Much as I would like to say that I don't need more power on occasion the truth is there are times when I do need more magnification than 4-6 X. My eyes are not quite as clear as they once were. Last shooting light on a target that is not yet identified as THE ONE is where I am talking about. Where you have to count tines on a set of horns. Not legal to shoot unless you have a certain number on a side. Sometimes at last light I have a hard time determining which side a particular tine is on. More magnification is a bit helpful. Last month I was in a leopard blind and the moment of truth came at the last bit of shooting light. I was using a 4x14 Lupe with fine crosshairs. The cat appeared as just a gray form in front of the bait at 4x. Movement I could see but just a gray form. No landmarks to aim for. I didn't care to just take a poke in the dark so to speak with my PH's epidermis at risk.The fine cross hairs were just a suggestion in the low light. I used a trick Ray mentioned once when he told of a scope that had lost it's reticle. He just centered the scope where the bullet needed to go and allowed his eye to do the rest. I got just enough of a hint at the cross hairs to feel good about the shot. As I cranked it up I could pick up the landmarks that allowed me to take the shot. How high did I crank it? Almost all the way to pick things out. How high was it when I took the shot? About half way back down. Could I have made things out eventually at 4x? Maybe. It sure was nice to have a bit of room at the top in that low light circumstance. I too am contemplating the building of another 375. I think a 2-8 or 3-9 will go on it. I will use either a HD or a german #4 reticle so as to not be easily lost when the light is poor. For a dedicated DGR for buff elephant and lion, I think a 1x5 or open sights is plenty. For a "Neither fish nor fowl","jack of all trades and master of none" 375, I think a bit more at the top end won't hurt. This opinion and a dollar or three will get you coffee.