how does the 404 jeffery compare to say a 416 ruger for dangerous game. which is better or are the two close enough not to make a difference?

You can load the 416 Ruger to higher velocities, I believe. But a 400 grain bullet from one or the other at the same velocity at dangerous game distances means they're close in terms of performance. The 404 bullet is .423", the 416 bullet is .416". You can load the 404 to close to 2,400 fps, but most load it to the 2150 to 2300 fps range. You can get more speed out of the .416, which might be better for longer range shooting and flatter trajectory. It doesn't make any difference to me, I don't shoot dangerous game at 300 yards.

I have a 404 Jeffery and a 416 Rigby. I like the 404 Jeffery at 2,250 fps because it feels like a .375 H&H in recoil. The Rigby at full throttle hits me harder. The Rigby also has a long bolt throw, but I guess a Ruger wouldn't. My 404 holds 4 down, as does my 416 Rigby. I think I would prefer a box with 4 down for dangerous game, that being more important to me than the difference between a 404 and a 416.

Wikipedia describes the 416 Ruger as follows "the .416 Ruger duplicates the performance of the .416 Rigby and the .416 Remington Magnum. All three cartridge fire a 400 gr (26 g) bullet at 2,400 ft/s."

The Ruger provides this performance from a 24" barrel at 62,000psi pressure.

The .404 at 2,245 ft/s with a 400 gr bullet has a chamber pressure of 35,000psi and in a Mauser or Mauser type action can be loaded to similar pressure levels as any of the .416 calibre cartridges achieving 2,400 ft/s or more muzzle velocity. With the bullet having a slightly larger frontal area the .404 theoretically has the edge over the 416s but that is splitting hairs and in practice all the 40cal dangerous/big game cartridges are the same in performance when loaded to the same or similar velocity.

The .404 cartridge gained real following for big and dangerous game hunting because it was originally designed and loaded to duplicate the performance of the great double rifle cartridge, the 450/400 3". At that performance level the .404 could be built on a light standard length Mauser sporter with recoil that was more tolerable to a wider range of hunters and shooters and this as most accept, generally leads to more effective shooting.

I don't think you can go wrong with a 404 J, 416 Riby, or 416 Remington.

With that said, I looked at all 3 and selected the 404 J a few years ago. It doesn't have the belt of the 416, has a slightly larger powder capacity versus the 416 Rem, and a greater diameter (.423) for a bigger hole and easier handling of 430 and 450 gr bullets. And I think it's "cooler". You could argue that the 416 Ruger is the best cartridge in this class, but who cares? Those are the same people that buy into Nosler's new cartridges. It's just a new cartridge looking to solve a problem that was solved 100 years ago with the Rigby and Jeffery.

And my animated gif to the left? That's 404 J with a 430 gr Northfork solid dropping a jumbo.

BTW - I wish I had gone lighter on my rifle. A #5 barrel with an Enfield action and mesquite stock really added up. Recoil? Ha, none.

I think a 8-8.5 lb rifle (without scope) with a #4 barrel and 4 down is about right.

I myself chose the 416 ruger,mainly because i was looking for a big bore in a foul weather rifle. i got that in the ruger guide gun .the 416 rigby has been on my mind for years now and the ruger is as close as you could get. i know i wont get 2400fps out of the 20" barrel, but i will be happy to get 2250 . i have heard of some hornady 20" barrels getting 2325 and 2375. these on the ruger alaskan 20" barrels. i just started this post because the 404 seemed like a good choice for a dangerous game rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by Tanoose:
I myself chose the 416 ruger,mainly because i was looking for a big bore in a foul weather rifle. i got that in the ruger guide gun .the 416 rigby has been on my mind for years now and the ruger is as close as you could get. i know i wont get 2400fps out of the 20" barrel, but i will be happy to get 2250 . i have heard of some hornady 20" barrels getting 2325 and 2375. these on the ruger alaskan 20" barrels. i just started this post because the 404 seemed like a good choice for a dangerous game rifle.

Ruger 416 is perfect for Alaska

I just posted on the Custom Gun sub forum about the 404 J, so I will briefly repeat it here.

I had Dakota build me a 404 Jeffery on their Safari model (not the African which weighs a pound more) and it weighs exactly 8.5 lbs. I shoot it open sighted without a scope. A joy to carry. I added cross bolts, quarter rib, and a banded/hooded front sight with a fiber optic front sight. With a white vertical line rear sight, the contrast of the sights are very easy for me to see. I am 64 yrs old.

A light weight, powerful, DG rifle. I have taken two Buffalo with it last year and this year, hunting with Andrew (Fairgame) and Royal Kafue in Zambia.

I am very pleased with the rifle and caliber.

I shoot the Barnes 400gr bullets in my custom VZ-24 404J at about 2350. More than that, and the recoil can degrade the shooting experience. I have not shot a 416 ruger, but if it any faster with the same weight bullets, I would imagine the same result.

I have owned a number of 404s... Love the caliber. I have a LH CZ that might become another one. I wish ruger would have picked .410 or .423 for the ruger case...would have added some cool factor...in the long run not a dimes worth of difference in the two...400 grains at 2200fps+...it will do work...

Ed

I have my 430 gr solids at 2,200 fps and 380 gr softpoints at 2,315 fps - both from Northfork.

The softpoints are awesome on non-DG and suspect they would work on buff well. I smacked a red hartebeest at 180 yards and it sounded like a train hitting him. Took a sable at 150 yards through thick brush and laid him flat.

quote:

Originally posted by Austin Hunter:
I have my 430 gr solids at 2,200 fps and 380 gr softpoints at 2,315 fps - both from Northfork.

The softpoints are awesome on non-DG and suspect they would work on buff well. I smacked a red hartebeest at 180 yards and it sounded like a train hitting him. Took a sable at 150 yards through thick brush and laid him flat.

They look like two very nicely balanced loads for the .404, showing there is no need to run full throttle to be effective on big game. Is the POI close for the two different weights?

quote:

Originally posted by eagle27:

quote:

Originally posted by Austin Hunter:
I have my 430 gr solids at 2,200 fps and 380 gr softpoints at 2,315 fps - both from Northfork.

The softpoints are awesome on non-DG and suspect they would work on buff well. I smacked a red hartebeest at 180 yards and it sounded like a train hitting him. Took a sable at 150 yards through thick brush and laid him flat.

They look like two very nicely balanced loads for the .404, showing there is no need to run full throttle to be effective on big game. Is the POI close for the two different weights?

real close at 50 yards; 1" or so at 100 yards

Most of my hunting over the years has been with the 404 and 416 Remington...To cut through the chafe, I have never been able to tell any difference at all between the two on large animals..and don't buy off on that 416 can be loaded to higher velocity than the 404, that's 100 year old information, with modern powders such as 4831 its no trick at all to get 2500 FPS with a 400 gr. bullet in the 404, keep in mind the 404 case is within a hair of holding as much powder as the 416 Rigby. Bot the 404 and 416 were traditionally underloaded with early powders, but today the 416 for example is simply a 416 Wby without a belt, so go figure.

The .416 Rem shoots flatter with any given bullet and probably performs better when used in open country and shots are longer due to its better sectional density, but that's mostly guess and by gosh on my part, Guess that's the reason I've always had both, couldn't make up my mind..

some folks condem the belted case of the Rem or Ruger, for what reason I have never understood, the belted case has stood the test of time and Lord knows the .375 H&H is hard to fault..

Take your pick, if your a bit of a nostalgic go with the 404, if not then the more modern 416 Ruger is probably best for you and cheaper to maintain.

Bottom line form a hunters standpoint is the 404, 416 Rem, 416 Wby, and 416 Ruger all do their best work with a 400 gr. bullet at 2400 FPS.