I have 3 boxes of different 458 Win Mag factory loadings. I am going to check their velocities against the published data hopefully this weekend. I wish I had some of the publicized new Winchester loadings that claim the same velocity as the Hornaday's
1) 400 gr Trophy bonded Federal @ 2380 FPS
2) 450 gr Swift Remington @ 2150 FPS
3) 500 gr DGS Hornady @ 2260 FPS

If all the cartridge mfg's could meet these modern specifications for this cartridge with reliability, it sure would breath some life back into the cartridge.
Not everyone hand loads and having this type of performance available off the shelf (across the globe) would be great; with quality projectiles.
For you folks that reside in Africa, is Hornady ammo available there?

EZ

I have some factory loads in Winchester 510-grain soft points, Federal Premium 500-grain solids, and I may have some Superior Ammo loaded 450-grain solids as well if you want to test some of those too.

OTOH -- box of Federal "Cape Shok" here, 350gr. bullets runs $119.99. That's six bucks a pop, and all the more reason this caliber is handloaded.

eezridr,

What barrel length do you have?

My predictions.

Federal 400gr load goes 2320 fps +/-

Remington 450gr load 2100 fps +/-

Hornady 500 gr load 2080 fps +/-

Looking forward to your results.

The barrel on my 458 is 24" (Browning Safari grade).
I thought I would get around to this test tomorrow but was informed by a neighbor that a big tree is down across the fence at my farm, so I think my son and I have our work cut out for us tomorrow. Getting some chains sharpened today for our saws.
I hope to get my testing done on Thursday.

EZ

I have the 458 CZ 550 Lott and I will will push
the 500gr bullet at 2280fps and the solid at
2362fps. I don't know what a stock 458 Win Mag
500gr bullet would go out of my rifle. A 458 Win Mag that I handloaded went 2108.

The Hornady loads that were advertised at 2,260 wnet 2,150 consistently out of my CZ in .458 Lott.

It seems we have this same topic about every month or so.

It's real easy to get 2250 and 2200 with 450 and 500 grain .458 Winchester loads using AA2230 powder. At least in my 22" barrel.

I don't understand why the loading companies simply don't do that.

2260with a 500gr bullet thats almost up there with the cz 550 american safari Lott. My bullets 500gr go 2280 and the solid goes 2362 fps

Finally got to the range today. about 60 degrees F. Beautiful sun shinning day.
Took the following readings with my Oehler 35.
Rifle; Browning Safari grade (24" barrel)

1) Hornady DGS 500 gr (advertised vel 2260 fps); 3 shots
2091; 2080; 2071
Avg 2080
std dev 9
2) Remington safari 450 swifts (Advertised velocity; 2150) 3 shots fired
2087; 2059; 2025
Avg 2059
std dev 31
3) Federal 400 gr trophy bonded (Advertised velocity; 2380 fps) 3 shots fired
2260; 2240; 2239
Avg 2247
std dev 11

Now to the loading bench with the AA 2230 and 450 gr; 500 gr swifts.
Going to begin with 72 grains with the 500 pill
Any suggestions with the 450's using AA 2230?

EZ

quote:

It's real easy to get 2250 and 2200 with 450 and 500 grain .458 Winchester loads using AA2230 powder. At least in my 22" barrel.

I don't understand why the loading companies simply don't do that.

Lawyers.

quote:

Now to the loading bench with the AA 2230 and 450 gr; 500 gr swifts.
Going to begin with 72 grains with the 500 pill
Any suggestions with the 450's using AA 2230?

A friend of mine loads the 450's at 2100 with 75 grs. of 2230. Your mileage may vary, and that's out of a 22" barrel.

My PH on my last hunt loads 74 grs. of 2230 behind the 500 gr A Frame and the old Hornady solid. He still has a batch. Was a gun dealer in RSA for years. Don't recall what he said the velocity is, but I can attest the load with a 500 Hornady solid will knock a Cape buff on it's butt. Happened ten yards from me. That was the day I decided to buy a .458 Win.

I just got a CZ550 in 458 Lott. What loading data or loads are you Lott owners loading. So far I have just shot a box of factory Hornady rounds out of it to get the scope adjusted and barrel broken in. I t seemed to shoot the Hornady loads into 1.5" groups at 100yds out of the box. I figure with handloads and bedding the action I should get it down to an inch at 100yds with 500gr Hornady's.

These 458 SP bullets I fired were hand loaded for my LOTT But would work in a 458 Win Mag.

quote:

1) Hornady DGS 500 gr (advertised vel 2260 fps); 3 shots
2091; 2080; 2071
Avg 2080

So; even to day, 50 years after introduction, using modern chemistry the super duper newest Hornady loadings missed the mark by 200 fps and that in a 24in bbl! I wonder what the Olin/Winchester loads are up to these days?

Federal eeks out 2050fps with 450 gr bullets. Thats added powder space and less bullet wt!

I would think 500 gr @2050 fps would get the job done but that extra 200fps, would be nice, eh ?

And true to form, the new FN Winchester is planned to chamber the 458winmag (no lott) in the M70 even though the 458Lott would fit. Death, taxes and winchester.....

No trouble to get 2200 fps with good handloads from the 500 Hornady - from several powders.

Those who use the outdated argument of excessive pressures in Africa, if the cartridge is loaded to max in North America, have either 1) no experience themselves with modern powders, or

2) are just repeating ancient history.

I have considerable experience with H335 (recommended by Hornady)in both my Ruger No.1 in 45-70 Imp and my CZ 458WM firing 500's and 450's (both the 450 Barnes X and 450 Swift A-Frame)and no matter the season (summer, fall or winter - yes, I do considerable testing during the winter months), the MV's show very little or no change indicating it is a very stable powder under extreme change. That's one major reason it's recommended by Hornady.

Others have reported similar results from AA2230. So, let's lay to rest that myth.

I spoke with a rep at Hornady two days ago regarding their new ammo for the 458WM. The heavy magnum is no more because of inconsistent loading problems, according to that source. The "new" ammo uses a different loading technique and "some" of the same powder. But the case is not "full". It is a blended powder, which is their "formula". Of course not available to handloaders.

Nonetheless, I'm happy with my results using H335 for the heavyweights and H4198 for anything lighter than 450grs.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

My .458 Win Mag (a safari grade 1957 model 70) consistanly shoots 450 gr North-Fork Solids and Softs to 2250 fps. with 72 gr. of AA2230.

Going to try and reload some 2230 tonight ahead of some 500 grain Hornady interlocks.
Starting with 72 grains. I think I have some H335 as well but it is probably 15 years old.

quote:

H335 as well but it is probably 15 years old.

After shooting AA2230...you won't care how old the H335 is.

quote:

I spoke with a rep at Hornady two days ago regarding their new ammo for the 458WM. The heavy magnum is no more because of inconsistent loading problems, according to that source.

Is this unique or has Hornady had "loading problems" across the board on their entire superperformance line. I would imagine they had no problems with the Lott? No need to even go superperformance. Easy. Piece of cake. No need to reload Lott, unless you actually want too. Starting to sound like a requirement for some winmag owners.

The old post and point was, none of this was ever necessary. Could have had a Lott capacity ctg from the get go, if only.....

I do not believe the "super performance" and the older heavy magnum listed @ 2260 are the same loading.
The newer "super performances" lists the 500 gr velocity @ 2140.
I have not seen of the newer Hornady "SP" on the shelf yet so I cannot speak from experience as yet. I will buy some and check it out when available however if I get AA2230 load dialed in, I will probably just reload to save some coin.

I was just warming up lunch and thinking. We really owe Winchester a great dept of gratitude.

Imagine if,... back in the 1950s having decided to go with just one std length action M70; Winchester next introduced a non-belted magnum just fat enough for 45 caliber with shoulder and a full line of ctg from 30 to 45! They would have ruled the world! Crushed the 300 Weatherby. Today there might be no 375HH or 416Rigby. Thank you Winchester!

quote:

Originally posted by eezridr:
Going to try and reload some 2230 tonight ahead of some 500 grain Hornady interlocks.
Starting with 72 grains. I think I have some H335 as well but it is probably 15 years old.

72 gr. of AA2230 was my ending load. I get 2,145 fps with it from the 458 Win out of the 24' barrel on my Browning Safari. I really see no need to push it any faster after the results I got on ele.

465H&H

465H&H,

You made my day! I hope I have similar results. If so I will hold the line there as well with the 500's. I may experiment with some 450's though!

All these fantastic, and not so, loads for the 458WM. Velocities all over the place and no idea of pressures.

If y'all don't mind, I think I will just stick with my CZ 450 Dakota. No magic pixie dust sprinkled in the case or duplex loads or anything special. On the other hand, I have clocked the 500gr Swift A-frames and old-style single banded Barnes solids over 2500fps and the cases just fall out of the rifle.

Rich

Rich,

The load of 72 grains of AA2230 is listed online on the Accurate Arms reloading data page at 53,808 PSI with a 500 grain Hornady RN. I realize all guns are not the same but there appears to be a margin of safety at this pressure level.

EZ

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
All these fantastic, and not so, loads for the 458WM. Velocities all over the place and no idea of pressures.

If y'all don't mind, I think I will just stick with my CZ 450 Dakota. No magic pixie dust sprinkled in the case or duplex loads or anything special. On the other hand, I have clocked the 500gr Swift A-frames and old-style single banded Barnes solids over 2500fps and the cases just fall out of the rifle.

Rich

I have often thought that the 450 Dakota would be at it's best for elephant with the 550 grain Woodleigh solid at 2,200 fps. Recoil would be bearable (but just barely so for me) and pressures low. Penetration would be outstanding.

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
All these fantastic, and not so, loads for the 458WM. Velocities all over the place and no idea of pressures.

Rich

Rich, check the Barnes' Manual #4 and Hornady #7.

Some of us are very happy with 2200 fps for a 500 Hornady and a 500 Banded Solid. OTOH, 2300 to 2400 fps for a 450 is more than enough.

Enjoy your 2500 from your Dakota. Personally, I don't think it's needed for anything other than bragging rights. But to each his own.

I don't even "need" 2200 fps from a 500gr for anything I hunt, but I did shoot a black bear with my Ruger #1 45-70 Imp at that MV - with the 500 Hor. RNSP... just for "kicks" - all 80 ft-lbs of it!

Bob

www.bigbores.ca