Hello

I so enjoy the information you experts share with novices like I am. But after reading many thoughtful posts, I find that sometimes opinions here are like Religion...no agreement.

I know there is much here on the following subject; I've read it. But after reading it , to me, the varied opinions make the answer undetermined.

Did one poster say it right : "There is NO answer"?

I've bought a like new, safe queen, (made in 2005) RSM in 458 Lott ; yes, it has those pretty and dark streaks in the stock.

Some of you say only a fool would not bed it. Others say bedding is uneccessary, but keeping the screws tightened properly is . I even read one post which asserted that "RSM stocks are NOT made to be bedded." Another post explicitly instructed the reader on how to tighten the three screws.

Would I be wrong to infer from this debate here that a major-but not exclusive reason-for RSM breakage is untightened screws-- not unbedded stocks?

If it matters, probably much of the little shooting I'll do with it will be the Win 458 not the Lott.

Thank you, as always, for your insights,

Bill

One of the reasons to PILLAR bed is the fact that wood expands when wet and shrinks when it dries out and also compresses over time.

If you pillar bed and leave a slight bit of pillar above the tang and recoil lug area and a bit below the trigger guard and front receiver screw you will negate somewhat the effects of the wood moving around and by torquing the screws the receiver will stay in one position and NOT be affected by wood touching...

You can achieve pretty much the same affect if you "skin" bed the receiver and leave the barrel free floating...still using pillars OR a solid bedding block...It boils down to what level of accuracy you require...one minute of buff leaves a lot of movement in the wood that doesn't cause any redazz....trying for a .250 MOA at 1000 yds is a whole 'nuther question.

You have to decide for yourself what your requirements are...remember everyone has their own "mindmush" working and thinks differently what the answer to ANY question is...in their own minds and requirements.

There ISN'T one answer to this question for certain

Luck

I have glass bedded every rifle i own, from .17's through 40MM. Its like home security. Most people add it AFTER they have been robbed! Glass bedding will not harm your RSM in any way but will avoid the inevitable stock cracking that will occur if you shoot it enough. Just keeping screws tight wont help you because wood shrinks and expands with heat and humidity. Look a Brownells accraglass kit costs what $20.00 and you can glass bed at least 3 guns with one kit. Its no big deal either and I'd be happy to talk you through the process.-Rob

Foo: thanks for your reply

Rob: that is a very kind offer! I will order the kit and get back to you.

Bill

Bill,
IMHO you cannot rely on pillars alone to absorb the recoil from a .458. I have 30.06 that cracked behind the tang because they were not backed up by a bedded action. Hopefully, your .458 is also cross bolted. If not, you should consider it.

DH

It has one crossbolt and three ...what shall I call them?...retaining screws?

I bedded my RSM .416 before I ever fired a shot thru it. Not a lot of rounds through the gun so far (1-200?) but no cracks either.
C.G.B.

CG

I think I will too, but I'll probably practice with Robb's help on a less valuable stock first.
(I've an after factory walnut on my pre 64 416 Rem which is unbedded)

Still I've read on AR that RSM stocks are not intended to be bedded, and I once bought a RSM in 416 used from a very large gun shop which said it didn't need bedding!

Drill and tap a 5/16" hole down through the middle of the wrist, pour in a small amount of steel epoxy(any brand will do) and insert a 1/4" piece of all thread, then top off the epoxy. The threads will hold the 'poxy and you shouldn't have any worries about the wrist cracking...

Be sure to relieve behind the tang as the tang will crack the stock faster if it is tight.

You can also run a piece of all thread up the barrel channel with the all thread screwed into the pillar or make a pillar/recoil boss and imbed it in steel epoxy which will transfer the recoil throughout the forward portion of the stock.

I've done these "things"(alum bedding block, steel pin in the wrist, and steel rod up the "spout" so to speak) to all my heavy hitters including my 510 Makatak sitting in the OEM stock Ruger 30-06 walnut stock and it has handled the ~600 gr 510 gr bullet at 2000-2400 fs plus without any problems.

I had a Savage laminated stock split at the bottom of the blind magazine box from the recoil of a 375 H&H...then I read where those stocks weren't rated beyond a 338 WM, but it was an easy fix with some shimstock bedded in epoxy and the blind mag boxed in with the shim stock.

Having a bedding block or Pillars and epoxying in the recoil lug keeps the receiver from moving against recoil by friction against the pillars through torque on the screws and metal to metal contact and the metal recoil lug against the metal recoil abutment.

Take a rifle apart and look at just how LITTLE amount of wood is really there holding against the recoil impetus, then stick your fingernail down into that soft wood and consider just what is really going on when you touch off a 458 WM or larger round...anyone who DOESN'T want all the extra epoxy, metal support needs to stay well away from me...

Cross pins have been helping for well over a hundred years to help counteract the flexing in the weakest point...the magazine cutout for an "open" magazine...the crosspins help keep the wood from flexing..leave it a blind mag and you gain that extra strength on the bottom...add another 0.025"- 0.050" of wood to the sidewalls, a blind mag AND epoxy in a steel mag box, pillars and MOST of the problems associated with cracked stocks goes away.

Why people resist strengthening the weak points is beyond me...it's simple and easy to do and it is hidden from view and if done right is just as good looking inside as outside.

There are about a million and one ways(plus a few extra) to handle "bedding" a rifle, but very few why NOT to bed...but it's still a personal choice so enjoy your own thing.

Luck

I am a believer in full glass bedding on everything. I remember the first rifle I saw bedded in Devcon Plastic steel in 1960 and have been bedding all my rifles since. Primarily in Brownells Acra Gel. On the second and last rifle I ever have commissioned I specified FULL glass bedding of action and barrel. I just believe it solves a lot of problems BEFORE they exist.

I'm also going to say to bed it as well as to relive the tang and add a wrist pin. I've done it for a few stocks of mine and don't see any reason not too; it's cheap insurance and fun, IMO. Further, if the stock has some nice looking mineral streaks through it, why would you want to chance having it break and having Ruger put a less pretty replacement stock on it?!

Here's a link to an article I wrote that kind of walks you through the steps (or at least how I did it).

IMO, if a big bore is going to Africa it should be hand bedded then glass bedded at least behind the recoil lugs and tang. and a full glass job from one end to the other is acceptable and I prefer that. I also want two steel cross bolts..That is more than sufficient..

Wood can over time develope a gap between the recoil lugs and the wood itself and this give recoil a running start at the wood..the magazine box SHOULD NOT contrary to common belief be bedded tight, that is a disaster sooner or later..

If one has a the right piece of wood,properly cured and dried, properly layed out and its perfectly hand inletted it MAY last 100 or so years and as it ages it will become more stable, but I wouldn't bet a high dollar safari on it because if your wrong you will be out of a rifle or paying for wounded animals as the gun won't stay sighted in..If the glass does not show then so what?

All of the above also applies to composite and laminated stocks, they all have issues that need to be addressed before you go..

Never let a stockmaker con you into the old addage if a gun is properly inletted it won't split out especiall on a big bore, that is pure BS and salesmanship working..Wood can move, and to a lesser degree so can laminate and plastic..I have at one time or another repaired all of them.

Bottom line, a working big bore gun should be glassed and cross bolted. A second lug on 458 and up. The second lug is not necessary on the 375 and 40 calibers. Cross bolts and glassed recoil lugs and tang, on 375 and 40 calibers it's plenty. I'm pretty sure you could get away with just a glass bed on the 375, 9.3s and 40 calibers.

For what it's worth;
I would recommend Devcon 50110 for bedding. It is better than anything else I've tried. I use Brownell's release agent in the yellow spray can and like that also.

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
Glass bedding will not harm your RSM in any way but will avoid the inevitable stock cracking that will occur if you shoot it enough.

I can think of several reasons why bedding is a good idea, but the only reason I can come up with as to why not is because one is a purist.. Even custom stocks made to perfection can benefit from extra insurance. Better to have a little glass inside, (or a pillar) than a perfectly crafted custom cracked stock..