Ed- The problem with scaling up the Greener is that dammed cut in the rear where the receiver hinge pin is located. The only way to make the receiver with that cut that I can figure out is by investment casting it in( best way),sinker EDM or by making a very small 1/4" rod to insert through the hinge pin hole with a broached square hole that can hold a small HSS single point tool and manually advancing the tool into the work.( groan). This cut is crutial to the strength of the Greener action so if you can figure out how to do it, I'm all ears. That's why I went back to the Hi-Wall!
Pyroneco- Where are you getting the Paradox slugs?-Rob

[ 09-23-2003, 19:30: Message edited by: Robgunbuilder ]

Ed The Mac Bros barrel have a 1.5 � 12 TPI thread, hence my leaning that way. The barrel takes the pressure and the more wall the better. My thinking was to scale up the HI-wall so there is a .075 -.100 shoulder per side for torqueing down on. This would make the barrel diameter around the chamber area 1.650 � 1.700. After the first 6� of so we can begin to taper the diameter down. The idea of a nut might be nice for doing a switch barrel to alter headspace but if the chambering is done right there should be no need.

Rob, do you see any reason why we couldn't elongate the area where the barrel threads into the action. This would allow the use of the standard 12 TPI. The only difference would be the action block might be .500 or so longer. It�s just a thought and would make for a stronger setup especially since there is going to be one heavy barrel hanging out there.
John

The slugs I have are not paradox slugs. They are just fosters type shotgun slugs that have not been sized yet. Unsized they seem to average about 775gr and .735. I think these will work with a cardboard wad for early testing, but to go to high pressures we will need a flat base bullet or a sabot type load. The paradox loads I have cannot really be taken apart without destroying them so the slugs there are not reuseable. I was thinking a cast slug at .730 or so weighing around 900gr would be good, but from a material density look at it they will be very short for caliber. Might need to go up around 1200gr to get a good length in lead. All this is based on material analysis in AutoCAD so it should be very close. Without a good spin the 900gr flat base design I have looks very easy to upset as it is less than a caliber long. I plan to use the available slugs to do basic testing and then to take that information and use it for baselines when 900-1200gr slugs become available. I will redo my design with the 2 or 3 driving band style to see how that comes out as well as soon as I have time.

Pyronecro- I can turn whatever bullets we need. Not lead of course but for a sabot or a regular solid I've got it covered.
John

Then its done, Ron get me some brass, Fritz some bullets and I'll got set the gun in a fixture and try not to blow it up. Will start with the Encore and then rebarrel one of the 10ga guns I have. Bullet weight we should shoot for is probably 850-900grs in a solid depending on material. Fritz, tell me what the metal specific density you work in is and I'll draw something up for you to try. A nice 900gr 2 band at about .729 is probably where to start, may have to make it smaller tho and drive it with a wad. Time to get something loaded and going, lets make this project run.

Fritz454- You might just take your 1000 gr, .700 design and enlarge it to .729 but shorten it to weigh about 750 grs. With as many driving bands as possible. This would be a good place to start. I'll take some too.
You could always load this in a 3 inch 12 ga shell and see if it stabilizes with the rifled choke in the Encore. We will also have to make a sizing die for a 3 inch .50 BMG case so that it will hold the bullet.-Rob

[ 09-24-2003, 01:14: Message edited by: Robgunbuilder ]

Rob-Fritz--Pyro--

12GA FH cases should be left
full length.Length is no factor in break actions.
And you would have only one size of reamers and
dies.Also using long hollow base bullets the
length will help.I will use hollow base, whether made by Fritz or cast lead,and fill base with light fiberglass filler and use a wad.Have glued fiberglass into Foster slugs and it holds good,
with inside scuffed up a little.If they are nose heavy enough, they will go straight on like Foster slugs.The idea of this case is to use slow powder filling a big case, as opposed to a small powder space using ultra fast powder.

Fritz you could go with Rob's idea of bumping up the .700 -- 1000 grain, in size from .700
in to .729 and hollow out base to get it back to 750-800 grains.That would keep a longer bearing surface, and might be nose heavy enough to not need rifling.

Rob-The Highwall is a good idea and strong.
and I have figured away to feed the long case,
as long as we are building a heavy sidewall
Greener.And a new breech block.We will put lugs
on the front of action and sides breech block, so that the support surface in the back is not needed.
Be like a bolt action with lugs on sides, and they will have bearing surface about 3 times my
Ruger 77.All that will be needed in back is clearance and the pivot pins in from each side.The sides will be 3 times thicker than original.Also the pivot is exactly in line with
the center of the bore vertically, so it is easy to set up to machine and line up.Then the shell channel can be cut deeper in back ang the full length 12GA FH case will feed OK.Also will have the barrel threads twice as long as original.Have a picture that I will post as soon as the boy gets it on our site later, showing action and case being fed in.Ed.

Here is picture of Greener fixed to feed the full
length 12GA FH.Barrel stub is in threads with same
size as 12 ga chamber to fit for feeding case.
We will build action thicker and have breech
lugs on the front.Breech block will be a .125
wider also.And no thrust surface will be needed in
back, just risers on side of block with threaded
pins on each side, allowing top of breech block to be scaloped down for case feeding.Mainly will
be putting a rectangular hole in a block of steel,
drilling cross holes, and threading front for barrel.It will take a bunch of work for sure.Ed.