I just spoke with EAA, and they are back to saying 30 to 90 days on the izh mp221 SxS 629$ list double rifle.

I have one on order in 45/70.

Hopefully, it'll be in my grubby paws by september

jeffe

Hey jeffe.....you gonna let me shoot it???

YUP!!!

first even... lemme call carrett ammo...

heh

really, I am planning getting really close to their 1650 and 420 gr bullets....

jeffe

Guys,

Where is there some data on this beast? (Like pictures and specs maybe?)

Found some information at:

http://www.eaacorp.com/firearms/rifles/sidebyside/index.shtml

Look at the IZHMP221 listings. Very interesting. $629 is the list price.

Thanks,

[ 07-02-2003, 02:20: Message edited by: mstarling ]

Hi Gang, new to board but could not pass up responding to this post. I also have one of the EAA Doubles on order in 45/70. Hope to turn it into something much larger. 450 No. 2 Nitro Express. Local Gander Mountain Store ordered it for me. $519.99. Called EAA and all they would tell me for a delivery date was Summer.

550ish, delivered... for a 45/70 double, that's "easy to adjust poi",,, yeah, i am in...

talked to them tuesday, they are waiting on a signature on a form from the govt.

can't wait

jeffe

I guess EAA needs to present ONE answer.

Today they said "we are STATING Jan 27, 2004"

the paper is still uhng up, but no one could tell me which department, what form, who's name it was in,,,

*I* would be calling my congressman to get these in country

jeffe

Guys,
Been E-mailing back and forth with EAA fro two days now. E-mail this morning said expect dilivery in counrty by Christmas, provided governmental red tape gets fixed.

Jeffeoso,

When EAA first announced the sxs 45/70, I E-mailed them as to the use of heavy 45/70's.

There response to me was, "Just factory ammunition". Assume this to mean, there lawyer's don't want litigation.

I'm curious about the possibility of reboring to a longer 458 case. Maybe 45/90, 45/110, or even to 45/120.

Keep us posted as to delivery date of your gun.

I want to handle one before I buy.

Roger QSL

Roger,
like someone posted.. it's also chambered in 30-06, 308 and 223... all high pressure guns. in fact, TC wouldnt chamber their contender for the 308 family, due to thrust/case head...

I am going to send my handirifle to NEF nextweek... asking for 45/70 and a trigger job... it'll get reamed to 45/120... watch and see.. I am going to talk to reamer rental and have a "conversion" reamer made... one that doesn't cut on the casehead/rim to take 45/70 to 45/120..... bet I get folks wanting to rent it, when eaa gets in.

i wish eaa would state EXACTLY what form and where it's held up. I'ld write my congressmen in a heartbeat to get that sped up.

jeffe

Guys,
As to what form they wouldn't say. Just told me "government". My guess is somebody in ATF wants to call the damn thing a destructive device. Don't they know anything it is a destructive device. It will destruct rocks, deer, bear, elk, buffalo, etc. Seriously, I don't think any of us are going to see one now until next year.
As for rechambering, before you guys get too carried away with what can be done. I did a lot of research on pressure and case head thrust and even though it's chambered in 30-06 at 50,000 cup when the case head goes up so does thrust area. As near as I can figure it with 45/70, 45-120 or a Nitro Express head size peak safe working pressure needs to stay at or under 40,000 cup.
So, your 45-120 is safe at blackpowder loadings or smokeless equivelents and reloaded to about Nitro levels. This is why I want to go with the 450 No. 2 Nitro. Same ballistics as all the rest 480 to 500 gr. at 2150 to 2200 fps. but runs at about 35,000 to 38,000 cup. Safety, Safety, Safety.
KAB

Guys,

Before everyone get TOO carried away drooling about monster loads for the "new" EAA 458 double...

I talked with them several years ago when the "gun" was offered with 18 in. barrels. At that time what they offered was a "kit" with a gunsmith installable sight arrangment and a pair of barrel LINERS to convert thier 12 ga. "coach gun" to 45-70 (or 30-06). One barrel had a straight threaded "retainer" and the other barrel had a offset retainer and locknut arrangment to allow the "user" to tweak the second barrel to bring it into the same point of impact as the barrel with the straight retainer. This was to be done after the gun was sighted in for the "straight" barrel liner.

It would be a good idea to see if this new gun uses the same idea. The EAA website seems to indicate that the design might still be the same. And they also said "Factory Loads only" then also.

I'm long time 45-70 fan and was VERY interested in the idea of a 45-70 double, at least until I found out the "rest of the story".

Not meaning to rain on anyones parade, just an FYI so ya might want to ask the right questions...

They still have the liners for the 12ga gun, but this new one is made with rifle barrels, not inserts. When I told my local gun shop that I wanted one of the new EAA 45-70 doubles, they ordered up two barrel liners and a coach gun and gave me a call. This was around Feb. I couldn't belive they had gotten one in already, until I saw the liners. I've since printed off and delivered the details on the web page so no more confusion.

Lar45 is correct this one has rifled barrelsand better yet it has a detachable trigger group. Press a latch a the trigger plate, triggers, hammers and mainsprings in one group pull out. In the field replacement of broken part just by carrying spare group. This double aslo has the distinction of having triggers where either trigger will fire both barrels.
KAB

Griz,
This is a double trigger, non-elective arrangement,....

jeffe

Have also emailed them to notify me when the new .45/70 doubles arrive. My dealer also is prepared to order it. Now...as to rechambering, what to do, what to do, what to do?
Ain't the waiting an' desizhun makin' a b----?

Jeffeosso,
Yes, you are correct it is double trigger non selective. But, here is the catch, When I talked to EAA about which action this was being built on was told it is on the MP213 Action. So, if this is correct and you look at the features on the MP213 shotgun this is what it says in their catalog about the triggers. I quote," The removeable double trigger assembly is unique in the fact that each trigger can fire both barrels." this can only mean that you can pull front for right barrel/rear for left barrel or front once for right and again for left or rear once for left and again for right. Beats me how they did it. But if this is true and they are detachable too like the catalog says. This could be the best thing since sliced bread. Hope this clears up my earlier post. Can you tell I reeeaaaalllyyy, reeaaalllyy want one of these? Does it show?

Grizzly

What I don't understand is the SRP price of the MP213 - $939 for the shotgun - but $629 for the double rifle? The double rifle beeing $310 cheaper?

Franz

Franz,
This is, i believe, based off the izh43 design, which as an msrp of 399....

I can't wait for one of these... in fact, I sent my handirifle in for a 45/70 barrel and will be contacting some reamer makers for a 45 jeffe flanged conversion reamer!!

jeffe

Daydreamer,
I have to assume if what EAA told me on the phone is true that it is based on the MP213 and by the pictures in the catalog this appears also to be true as there are some slight but noticable differences between the IZH43 and the MP213, that the difference in price is due to the fact that they have to invest no time in regulation with the rifle but do have to check that the patterns from the shotgun overlap. They just put it together and ship (hopefully) to us and we do the rest.

By the way guys, have tried calling Baikal direct to get the needed information but don't speak Russian and no one available spoke English or they didn't understand I what I wanted. Have found someone who works for me that speaks Russian, but have to leave town for next week to ten days on business. Will try Baikal call again with my new found Russian speaking best friend when I get back.
KAB

Guys,

If someone is going to talk to the maker directly, tell them that at least some of us believe there is a market for a better double rifle in a medium caliber as well as the 45-70.

Would personally like to see them use their detachable trigger group technology in a nicely stocked 9.3 x 74R double. That would be a dandy addition to a battery already including a larger double rifle! Would be very useful in North America.

I'd sure scounge the accounts for one if it was was in the $1000 to $1500 range.

Thanks,

Okay... here's the full story...

The guns are "new" items that have to be added to the "annex list" before they can be imported. The "annex list" has not been updated in more than 10 years, so EAA says. With Russia selling stuff to Iraq and Afganistan, updating the list is a low priority.

So, if everyone writes their congressmen, demanding that they tell the state department update the annex list, perhaps we can get these.

Remember, a handwritten letter gets 10x the attention, and might wind up on the rep/sen's desk, rather than handled by a clerc

jeffe

GrizzlyClaus (Phonetic spelling in our alphabet. Pronounce as written.

Govereechya vwee po angleski, spaseeba ? Do you speak English, please?

jeffeoso,

Let's see, they bring a new group of the approved double shotguns with stocks like the rifle. Then they offer a rifle barrel and fore arm set as an accessory (much like the insert tubes they already sell). Now you have an interchangeable barrel double rifle/shotgun set, that should not cost over $800- PROBLEM SOLVED . Not only that, you also have a much more versatile firearm. Hey, I think I should get a field test model on permanent loan for solving the government red tape problem (tell them that I will take one in 45/70).

Jim

[ 07-23-2003, 17:55: Message edited by: mbogo375 ]

KBGuns,
From EEA's catalog and I qoute "either trigger fires both barrels INDEPENDENTLY". Can only take this to be first pull of front trigger fires one barrel second pull of front trigger fires second barrel. KAB

I saw one of these Baikal SXS in 30/06 over here in Australia, price was around the $1800 Aus, didnt mention any other calibres though.

Cheers, Choppa

Just looked it up, $1625 at Mick Smith's Gun Shop in Sydney msgs@bigpond.net.au

Cheers

Is this the 45-70 double you guys talking about? It is available now apparently. Let's check it out. Thanks.

http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=10624661

So choppa the 45/70 Baikal SXS double is now availbe in Australia ?? Is that for certain ??

Can this thing take the full power Loads I load for my Marlin 1895 say 400 gr bullet at 1800 fps ??

Can it be rechambered for a more powerful round ??

[ 07-26-2003, 11:22: Message edited by: PC ]

Ming, the one at the link is a shotgun with 45-70 barrel liners, so It's not the double rifle being talked about. A gun shop in town has two of the liners in 45-70. They were confused also when I told them I wanted the 45-70 double.

I'm just curious about regulation on Garrett 420's and Buffalo Bores. Since the gun is regulated for 400 gr bullet at ~1300 FPS, how badly will it cross? Just can't wait for you guys to post on this.

Choppa and PC,
In Australia, Clayton Trigger and Tackle are meant to be importers of the Baikals but I'm not sure if they are the exclusive importers or not. As of last week, I was told that the 45/70 double is not available in Australia yet with no certain date on its arrival. I was going to place a deposit at Clayton T&T last week but am hanging off as other stores are selling the combo and U/O rifles a hundred or two cheaper than at Clayton. Either way a double 45/70 with a simple system for regulation for under $1800 is too good to pass up...
Cheers
Con

Yes I would like one, if it is only just arriving in the states it will be a year before it gets to Australia I would think. This coould be my first double

475Guy, they are not regulated. They use a jack screw to regulate the barrels to your loads. This is part of why they are cheaper.

Can they handle full power loads such as those used in a Marlin 1895 ??

Thanks Lar45 for the clarification! I hope they will have the real deal out soon. Thanks.

PC,
Will the Baikal handle full-power Marlin equivalent loads? Personally, who cares. If we can use the Winchester factory 300gr at 1800fps or reload a 300gr Nosler or Taipan to 1650 - 1800fps, it'll be a fascinating pig/sambar stopper. If the guns will consistently take loads that duplicate the 450 BPE then I'm one happy camper, if it has a simple regulation system as well, then I'm sold!
Cheers...
Con

With the same gun chambered in 270, then a comparison of bolt thrust shows that it should be able to hold marlin level loads. No one has tried it yet though.
????????????????????????????????????