Why are most double rifles side by side rather than over under?Is one way better than the other?What does it take to make a shot gun action into a double rifle?

I bought a book

Building Double Rifles On Shotgun Actions by W. Ellis Brown
ISBN 0-9714802-0-6

The book goes through action criteria, suitable rounds, lots of pictures, clear instructions, easy to read and understand. It basically has step by step instructions on a couple of ways to go about it. chopping off the shotgun barrels to use as a mono block, then boreing, threading and soldering the new barrels in. Or makeing your own monoblock from a block of steel along with smoke and fit techniques. There is a chapter on Regulation as well.
If the world doesn't stop, I'm takeing my 470 to the range this afternoon to proof test it.

Most doubles are side x side because they are designed for dangerous game and and a SXS breaks open cleaner and quicker than a O/U..It is sometimes difficult to load the lower barrel on a O/U as they, by design, lack the needed room...also the breaking time is greater for what thats worth...anyway thats the theory and I think its correct...

Then what would a drilling be considered as? Is it not an over and under? How do they compare as a DGR?

Drillings come in verious configurations but rarely in calibers suitable for dangerous game. They were designed for rough shooting where you never know what the blazes is going to come up next. For example, here in California wild pig are open year 'round and and are very happy to live the same habitat as Valley Quail and morning dove. In some areas, you could also run into black bear and coastal mule deer. So if you are wandering along with your '06 and flush 30 quail, you're kind of SOL. The same is true if the occupant of you hands is a, say, Ruger Gold Label 20 ga. and some gorgeous 4-pointer steps out of the bush and (figuratively, of course,) flips you off. How are you going to feel? Therein is the joy of a drilling . . . along with the lovely lines, the voluptuous German engraving and, hopefully, hammers.

However, I don't know anyone who would be silly enough to plan on a choice of elephant or sand grouse, lion or guinea fowl, buffalo or pigeon or hippo or spur-winged geese. Drillings are not for Africa . . . unless, perhaps, you live there.

In continental Europe, S/S and O/U are found in equal numbers among double rifle toters. They're ideally suited for our most common hunting mode : drive hunting with hounds and beaters where shots are taken at running game. Considering the great weight disparity of the game (Roedeer, Red deer and Wild boar) the 9,3x74R is quite popular. Quality level being the same, it's a little more expensive to build an O/U, as they're more complicated to regulate. From a PH's point of vue, Ray's remark about ease of opening may be right, although I don't feel so (I'm a O/U owner) but then, I'm not facing Elephant... OTOH, an O/U has greater lateral barrels support and will stay tight a little longer. Practically, I believe this is nitpicking and one should opt for the one he's most comfortable with (having O/U FN shotguns, my O/U FN rifle fits me best).

An ideal combination for Africa. If I lived there I think something like this would be ideal for a walk in the veld.









This Sauer drilling is in 7x57 and 16 bore, but was also available in 9.3x74 and 12 bore and infact was issued to some Luftwaffe crews in North Africa!

From this thread

The S/S double is not only better as a DGR, but you may reload both barrels similtaineously, quite quickly! The barrels have only to open far enough to clear one chamber, because both are at the same level horrizonally! with two cartridges between the first, and second, and the second and third fingers of the left hand, both barrels can be reloaded by placeing the hand, plam down, over the open breech, dropping both cartridges into the chambers at the same time. This can't be done with a O/U. To top this off, the bottom barrel is the proper barrel to fire first, on an O/U, and is the hardest, and slowest chamber to reload. As J. Taylor used to advise, if one is in thick stuff, one should never fire both barrels if more than one animal is near, but, after makeing a well placed first shot, reload the that barrel, so you always have one barrel in researve should the animal's parteners decide you need a payback. With an Over Under, this would require you to open the barrels much farther to accomplish.
I have never seen anyone reload a O/U any way other than one barrel at a time. I've tried to figure a way to reload fast with my O/Us but to no avail. One other thing is the recoil of an O/U is visious in chamberings suitable for DG, with the bottom barrel recoiling almost straight back. and the top barrel recoiling violently up. The reason for this is, the bottom barrel is almost in line with the CG of the rifle, while the top barrel is much higher then the CG.

When all is said, and done, it is simply a matter of personal choice, and practice, which you use, or become effecient with. I own both types, and I enjoy shooting both, but my O/Us are used for things like hogs, deer, and moose, and are all chambered for rounds no bigger than 9.3X74R. When dangerous game is on the minue, I choose the S/S every time! In my S/Ss one of my smallest chamberings is the 9.3X74R. One of the best things about a O/U is the ease of mounting a scope, and with little rounds like 7X57R they are fine deer rifles!

I had a drilling, a few years ago, that was perfect for dangerous game in Africa. It was what is known as a DOPPEL BOSH DRILLING . It had S/S rifle barrels, chambered for 450NE 3.25", but with a side selector it had a 12 Ga shot barrel, on the bottom, between the rifle barrels, where you would normally find the rifle barrel on mostdrillings.

A drilling with one rifle barrel and two shot barrels is not my idea of a real DGR, but was designed, and is, a fine forage rifle, made for pot hunting. A slug in the left barrel, and birdshot in the right barrel, and a heavy bullet in the rifle barrel and you are set for whatever comes along in the north woods. I've owned several Drillings, and I find them very well suited to Muledeer hunting in New Mexico, and West Texas, because the blue quail, and turkey seasons are open at the same time as the deer season, and they all inhabit the same hills!

Mac,
Did you ever get any grief from the Fish and Game folk about having a rifle barrel and cartridge during bird season? I've never heard of anyone ever getting cited over this here on the Left Coast but I have had a couple of wardens make disapproving noises about the drilling idea. I still want one in, say, 16x16x7x57R. The ultimate California Upland Gun.

Basically, a side by side action can be made shallower than an O/U, making it somewhat lighter, but the main advantage is it opens faster and the barrels don't have to be tilted down nearly as far to reload it! Additionally, the balance/handling/esthetic characteeristics of the SXS are better IMO. (More "classic".)

I don't care for O/U double rifles but I do shoot and love the early Browning O/U shotguns...

I have only been charged by one bird and shot an angry pheasant two feet off my barrel...nasty mess....The group I was with had a sicko artist and at supper they presented me with a drawing of a Pheasant stuck between my eyes, I didn't make it home with that drawing, wish I had it, pretty funny stuff....

Andre,
i believe you meant that the sxs is a little more exspensive and harder to regulate.

I believe that second shot placement is the actual reason that one "never" sees 470s, 500, or bigger in OU, read below.

the sxs offers a wider sighting plain over the barrels, imho. I may be just tradition, but I like em. 2 barrels, each shooting a bit wide of the target, but "flat"

the ou is a bird of another feather. Sure, it's 2 barrels, but until the point of regulation, you have the lower barrel shooting from a MUCH lower plain. At close ranges, where I would be concerned that I wanted a double, the second shot hits LOWER then intended.

what does that mean?

If you have a point of regulation, we'll say 75 yards, and the LR barrels are on the same plain, pulling the trigger results in a MAXIMUM variance of the width of the barrels. (feel free to correct me if i am wrong) once the gun has been regulated. Both barrels(let's stick with perfect) follow exactly the same ballistic curve, both having the same MPBR and hitting a KNOWN ammount low, when shooting very close... that amount is the same.

take the OU...
It's easier to regulate, BUT... looking at the sighting systems, and the portions of the ballistic formula, especially sight distance above bore. the formula results change, alot, at close range. In fact, the results change EVERYWHERE except the point of regulation, because the bottom barrel center of bore is at least 1" lower than the top barrel, and the bottom barrel must shoot UP not RIGHT in the case of the "left" barrel on a sxs. What does that do? at extremely close ranges, where the bullet is below the line of sight anyway, the bottom barrel will be a surprising (read non-exact shot placement) at very close range.

Dont believe me? take your trusty 30-06, tune it dead flat at 100 yards, and then take a aimed shot at 10 yards. put the cross hair/sights EXACTLY where you want the bullet to hit... it's like 1.5" low if you are using a scope. That's the effect you'ld see from the top barrel of a ou and both barrels of a sxs.

if you had been shooting the bottom barrel of a ou, it would be, at least, another inch low. Sure, you can "remeber" that the bottom barrel is low... like that will happen when the great and rather pissed off nyati is 15 feet from you, nose up and balls out!!!

just my opinions... i tend to have them on everything, and most aren't worth what ya pay for em.

jeffe

NitroX, I would concur with your contention that the drilling is an "ideal" gun for Africa, IF both upper barrels were for a powerful RIFLE round, and the bottom was a shotgun...

Jeffe, both S/S or O/U will only be regulated for ONE distance and will show a (relative) tendance to shoot apart at shorter range or crossfire beyond*. About shot displacement at close range, both types (BTW, the same goes for all scoped or high sighted rifles) will show it. Having a horizontal vs. vertical displacement may arguably be preferable for the hunter, considering that animal bodies are horizontal themselves. I've never regulated a double myself but have been told by reputable craftsmen that, during steps of the regulation process, O/U bbls. are prone to add horizontal dispersion to the expected vertical one, hence the extra care. S/S would seem to follow a more orthodox pattern in their behaviour.

* my O/U is particularily well regulated at 50 m (see pic) and this makes it easy to follow these grouping changes at varying distances.

Right Mac. I must confess that I assisted while my rifle was being regulated (it had to be done after scope mounting) and I kept quibbling and had the wedge moved in and out (with bbls. resoldered in between) untill I felt(very)satisfied. Not sure they'd do it every day

Old Sarge,

I have an old Fanzoj catalogue where they have pictures of a Vierling with three barrels in .470 NE and one in 8x75R that they built for someone who hunted in Africa. It was a special order gun and the accompanying text said that it had been built to withstand knocks in a Land rover. Wouldn't know anywhere near as much about the technical bits as you and the other experts here, though.

Good hunting!

Andre,
That just shows what they can do if they just WILL do it, but its time consuming and time is money I suppose....Absolutly magnificent accruacy for a double, best I have seen...

I'd love to own that one...A charging buff betweed the eyelashes would be duck soup.

I have taken my drilling on my last two trips over. It is 16X16 over a 9.3X72R. I haven't used the rifle on anything yet but would use it for Impala, Springbok and Warthogs. I used the 16 with 0 buck for Dik-Dik and Blue Duiker. Used the 16 ga #5 and 6 for various fowl.

Gentlemen: I don�t know about technical matters, but someone said once that side by sides were much stronger than over & unders. Is it so?

Mehulkamdar,
I don't suppose that the catalog bothered to give how much the beast weighed, did it? Certainly it would be effective in the hands of anyone strong enough to swing it. Personally, I like the version that Mac had. If I had a part-time home in Africa (and sufficient money to support it and the necessary toys) I'd sure be on the lookout for one like it. As it is, I'll have to satisfy myself with a trip now and then accompanied by good bolt guns. Maybe someday I'll put together a Pedersoli .450 #2 but anything more than that is too rich for my cheap blood!

Nainital, nobody knowledgeable would say that. All doubles shoot loose at one point and have to be tightened in time (squeezing and/or replacing the broach). In the absolute, the larger lateral breech support of the O/U makes for a stronger setup, so that it may outlast a S/S for a few more shots, a moot point in the real world, unless one considers entering benchrest competition with a double

Andre, Good thinking !

Actually, Jefe's explanations of regulateing of each of the systems, and their respective groupings on target,are basicly correct,but a little off target in a couple respects!

First the O/U is easier to regulate than a S/S, PERIOD! There are a couple reasons why this is the case! The barrels of the O/U are on the same lateral plane, and do not flip away from the horrizonal center of gravity, in opposite dirrections. Bottom, and top barrels flip "UP" from the CG ( center of garvity) of the rifle, BUT, different amounts! The top barrel flips up more than the lower barrel, because the top barrel is very high above the CG of the rifle, while the lower barrel is almost dirrectly in line with the CG. To regulate the O/U, the line of sight through the bore of top barrel must point much lower than the line of sight through the bottom barrel, but must stay in line with the bore of the lower barrel laterly. This is because the lower barrel recoils almost straight back, while the upper barrel rises much more. The barrel time being the same for both barrels,and the recoil haveing much less effect on rise from the bottom barrel, it is usually the barrel you want to use for long range shooting, and is the proper barrel for the first shot from a cool barrel set, with an over under, being, for all practical purposes, the same as a single shot. Also the fireing of the lower barrel is far less damageing to the rifle than the top barrel.

By cutting the main Iron sight on target for the regulation point of both barrels, from that point back to the muzzles, the rifle will shoot together, printing no farther apart, than the distance between the barrels. After the point of regulation, the barrels will shoot together out to the same distance as between you and the regulation point, past the point of regulation. If regulated properly,at a point, usually 100 mtrs for most O/Us, then the rifle will be useful for game shooting to 200 yds with both barrels. You simply hold over for longer than 200 yds distance with the bottom barrel, as you would with a Single barrel rifle. The scope should be sighted in for the regulation range as well, and would work the same way as irons at distance. All I'm saying is if both types are regulated properly, one must learn how to shoot the rifle, more than anything else, but this is easier to learn on an O/U, than a S/S.

The S/S, has the added draw back of both barrels, flipping up, but each also fliping away from the CG in opposite dirrections, rather than the "one" for an O/U! With S/S both barrels flipping "UP", being above the horrizonal CG, the right barrel also flips to the right of the lateral CG, and the left flips to the left of the lateral CG. This added dirrectional flip of recoil, adds to the complexity of regulation of the S/S double rifle.

IMO, With both rifles types being of equal quality, the The O/U will be basiclly stronger because the bottom barrel being the one that will be shot the most, the flexing of the action will be less than the S/S because of not haveing that "TWISTING" caused by each barrel being on different sides of both horrizonal, and lateral CGs, for the S/S.

For the most part there is little difference between the two systems for dangerous game use, but that little difference may just get you stompped! Especially if the O/U is scoped, it must be opened far more than a S/S, for reloading, and the bottom barrel is harder to load, even without the scope, while both are harder to load with the scope. That fumble prone re-loading, of the O/U, may be all it takes to let something effect an "encounter of the very distasteful kind"! Most will never use an O/U for dangerous game anyway, so the difference is moot! I have both, but when I go into the bush with an old cantancerous Buffalo, I'll take a S/S thank you!

Blaser will now make their drilling with all three barrels 9.3x74R