The new regs state someplace that you as an individual can send a rifle out of state to an FFL holder as long as the FFL holder sends you a copy of his license..I need a copy of that part of the regulation...

Ray:
I would call ATF and get a answer from them. This does not make sense to me...think of it, if I had to send a gun to Ruger, Colt, S&W, Remington etc., I seriously doubt that they would send me, an individual, a copy of their FFL. There could be the possibility of several thousand copies of that company's FFL in circulation.
But, please post if you find out anything.

Ray, Here are the BATF's Frequently asked questions and the applicable US codes:

(B7) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service?[Back]


A nonlicensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another State. A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. The Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.

[18 U.S.C. 1715, 922(a)(3), 922(a)(5) and 922 (a)(2)(A)]



(B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier? [Back]


A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]

Here's the ATF's webpage link:

http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b7

I talked to a dealer and he said that under the latest regs and a court ruling. all one had to do was go through a gun dealer so that a record of sale existed and that the FFL dealer to FFL Dealer was primarily based on FFL dealers making double profits..Then I believe I read something on this on AR sometime ago..Also under the new regs an FFL holder can fax you a copy of his license and you can mail him your gun...which makes more since to me than anything that I have heard lately come from our government.

Also keep in mind that an FFL is a worthless document if transfers are not made to a the listed address and name, so one floating around would mean nothing, as the gun must go to that party.

Thanks Frank, that is exactly what I was wanting, and its pretty clear that I as an Idaho gun owner with no criminal record can ship my gun to a California dealer FFL either by UPS or the US Postal Svce..

I can in fact ship a gun to myself in any state via the postal svce. and I confirmed that with the post master...Which is handy information when I go hunting or to SCI and don't want to deal with the airlines BS..

What is amazing to me is how many so called gun dealers are trying to keep control over charging folks unnecessary funds and shipping their guns...Another amazment is how many BATF agents will give you false information, either out of ignorance or because the disagree with the laws that they are supposed to enforce..Being a retired Federal Agent myself, I take special exception to such actions.

It's my understanding that to ship to or out of California one must have seperate state liscensing with Ca itself and both parties must be on file with Ca state gov.--- cannot remember the details on this but a friend just went through this. Maybe one of the online auctions would have some details on this. Rodney.

I just sold a rifle to an individual in Ca. last week. Sent it to his FFL, through the USPS, without a hitch.

Al

quote:

Originally posted by Rodney H.{500Jeffery}:
It's my understanding that to ship to or out of California one must have seperate state liscensing with Ca itself and both parties must be on file with Ca state gov.--- cannot remember the details on this but a friend just went through this. Maybe one of the online auctions would have some details on this. Rodney.

A private individual may ship a firearm to an FFL in California with no other paperwork.

Out of state FFLs must log in to the CA DOJ website (register the transfer) and verify that the FFL in California has a current license and then he can make the transfer.

Thank you Al Forbes for supporting us CA gun owners who are fighting to change the idiotic laws in this state.

As soon as we can get the recent Supreme Court Ruling (Wash. DC V Heller) incorporated in California we will be using it to fight this restraint of interstate trade and the rest of the gun laws that we can.

Glad this thread came up. I was down at my local gun shop yesterday and I asked the owner the same question. He said the same thing Fjold stated and gave me a copy of the ATF regulations. He said why spend money to have a FFL ship it to another FFL when you can do it yourself. An honest man who continues to get my business.

I've done it several times to FFL holders out of state via UPS. I don't trust the Postal Service.

A non licensee can send a gun to a Ca licensee via USPS, UPS, Fedex etc no problem. Lived there for 24 years and recieved hundreds of guns. Make sure the recipient has a current FFL( easily checked on line). -Rob

My misunderstanding, that friend of mine was going through the process of transferring a firearm from an ffl in Ca. to his ffl in Texas.

There is a new law here in CA that requires the extra step of out of state FFL holders who transfer guns into the state but private individuals are exempt from the requirements.

Ray,

Speaking strictly for myself and my own experience working for a chain store FFL dealer, I was the "gun manager"... (I don't work there anymore, my choice for reasons not related)...

The main reason most FFL's that DON'T accept guns from private sellers do that is because of the extra headaches in the way they are shipped and received.

When I started as "gun manager", we would accept guns from private individuals as well as dealers, and I mean all across the chain. However, it was appalling what we would get. We'd get guns with NO information at all. A gun in a box, that's it, no note, no information on who the gun was for, or who sent the gun, no phone call preceeding the shipment with a "heads up" that a gun was coming. We had several "mystery guns" that sat there for months until the "buyer", aka transferee wandered in and said, "Hey are you holding XXX gun for me?"

The problem is, any gun on premises had to be logged in if it stayed overnight. Can't log it in if we dont know who sent it, etc, etc. Can't verify who's supposed to receive the gun without information from the shipper, etc, etc.

Some of the most appalling packing and shipping care was taken with the guns, and had a couple "buyers" refuse to accept the gun because, "It wasn't what I thought, or not good enough condition", etc, etc, and they wouldn't transfer. Now the headache is figuring out who to send it back to, etc, etc.

Then, and this happened a couple of times, what do you do if a private shipper's "buyer" couldn't pass the background check? If it came from an FFL, we could send it back to the originating FFL holder of the ship.

The difference in time spent between handling a private transfer vs a dealer to dealer transfer was often significant. Don't get me wrong, some transfers went smooth, but the odds of that were against it.

When you accept from FFL only, which we started doing because of above reasons, nearly all our headaches disappeared. You have a firm backtrack of paperwork and point of contact to fall back on when things went sour.

I could scan, check in and log an entire truckload of inventory guns in the time it took to do ONE private transfer. It was never about the fees with us, we charged 30 bucks for transfer whether it was private or from FFL. The 30 bucks wasn't worth the time it took most of the time.

We did transfers as a "lost leader" service to accomodate customers who would (hopefully) spend money on other goods in the store. If anyone thinks we got "rich" from transfer fees, they are sadly delusional.

Just a different viewpoint for you Ray, not trying to "start" anything.

Add to this that a lot of Post Offices don't know the regs and won't accept them from nonlicencees. I've had this happen to me twice locally. They "looked up" the regs and refused me. It was just easier to get my FFL to ship it since he doesn't charge me to do it.