I am making plans for a Ruger No.1 in 450/400 and am seeking advice. What weight rifle is considered normal for this round in a single shot? As to case length which would you go with the 3" or 3.25"? Since this is a single shot with no need to regulate two barrels and will have the strenth of the modern Ruger action, would it be possible to load to higher than standard velocity for this round? Thanks for any advice or any experiences ya'll have to share.

Jim W.

Jim:

1.) 9 lbs or so.
2.) 3". I've owned and loaded for both. The extra length of the 3 1/4" is just a little more aggravation in the press and I like the thick rim of the 3".
3.) Yeah, I'm sure you could, but if you're going to do that why not chamber it for .500/.416 NE instead?
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

Jim I have a 450/400 3 1/4" double. I agree with 400 Nitro Express. The thick rim of the 3" is a good thing. Weight should be 9 to 91/4lbs without scope. I would probably specify a barrel to use .411 bullets, as that gives you a slightly better selection. This would be an excellent caliber for a No1.
You can get the same ballistics with a lot less trouble with one of the factory 416's in a No1.

No. 2 is right, groove diameter of .411" would be best. Most original .450/.400 3" guns have .408 grooves. However, you will probably want to shoot some factory ammunition sooner or later and current ammo is loaded with .411" bullets, although I don't know why.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

LIMPINGJ, I had a No1 in 450/400NE 3", and it shot very well, and the recoil wasn't bad at 9 lbs, however this rifle was paired with a double of the same chambering, so the loads I used were for the double rifle. ONE WORD OF CAUTION, if you load the 450/400NE 3" to pressures above that of a double rifle cartridge, be very careful not to let any of this ammo get into the hands of someone with a double of the same caliber! I would lable all my ammo with a red ink stamp in large letters, "NOT FOR USE IN DOUBLE RIFLES"! The 411 bullets are not proper for most old 450/400NE 3" rifles either. That, and the over pressure of your loads would be devistateing in a fine old English double rifle!

I agree with the chambering for 500/416K, but like you I like the 450/400NE 3", jus be careful!

Limping: I caught this itch about five years ago and had Chick Donnelly (Siskiyou Barrel Works) rebarrel a No. 1 in .416 Remington to .450-400 3-inch. This was my first "semi-custom" gun, and my first big bore. Frankly, it kicked the hell out of me (or at least I thought it did). This was with Barnes 400-grain RN FMJs and a healthy dose of RE22, giving close to 2400 fps. Since that experience, I have owned a number of other big bores, and had a lot more fun shooting them as I got used to recoil, including No 1s in .416 Rigby and .450 Nitro (a rechambered .458).
I think I would find the .450-400 much more fun to shoot now than I did then. One lesson I learned was that I just happened to send the reamer prints (got the reamer from JGS) to RCBS when ordering my dies, and RCBS said the JGS specs didn't match their specs at all! So be sure you ask about the reamer to ensure that your chamber will match your dies.

To clairfy, Based on the guns I have slugged, the 450-400-3" guns are mostly .411 and the 450-400-3.25 are mostly .408 at least in my experience or have I just been lucky...My "sweetthang" Jefferys is a .411 BTW..

I would like to add, Never shoot a English double without sluggeing the barrel or any foriegn double for that matter.

Ray, I really think it is the other way around. My .450/.400 3 1/4" was .411. The only other 3 1/4" gun I've slugged, a Wilkinson, was .408, but George Caswell says that most of them are .411.

My .450/.400 3" is .408 as is Rusty's. I recently bumped into a local dealer at the range with an A. Hollis and an H. J. Hussey, both were 3". He had slugged both before loading ammo and both were .408. I've slugged a couple of others over the years, one of which I recall was a Manton, that were also .408. I've never seen a 3" with .411 bores, although I was aware that there were supposed to be a few around.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

My 450/400 3 1/4 is .408. I wanted to use some 41 Magnum pistol bullets for light practice loads, .410 diameter [Nitro for Black style loads] and when seated in the case they would not chamber.

400 Nitro Express

The original 450/400 bore diameter was .411". Most 450/400 doubles I have owned (5) or
slugged (about 12) have measured .411 which is why factory ammunition is loaded with .411" bullets,
I have 1 x 450/400 double that slugged .410.

500 Nitro

Thanks for sharing your knowledge everyone. Looks like I will be best served with the 3" duplicating factory velocity. One other question what are some loads you have used to duplicate factory ammo?
Thanks Again
Jim W.

500 Nitro:

Reread the two posts immediately preceding yours.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

I will be going with a .411" dia. barrel. what load data and components do you use to duplicate the factory velocity?
Thanks
Jim W.

My experience is with 500 Nitro on this..but I know for a fact they came in everything from .405 to .413...That is why they should all be slugged, and this thread is neither here nor there..

400 Nitro Express,

I did read the posts immediately above mine. I am NOT saying that the doubles are not .408, I was just stating the fact
that the ORIGINAL dimenions of the 400 cal was .411" which is why factory ammunition is loaded with .411" bullets.

However, we often quote a rule over here which is "For every rule/standard in the British Gun Trade, you will always find an exception". This is mainly because the English gun trade did whatever they wanted as alot of cartridges were proprietry and not released to the rest of the trade. Therefore when someone wanted a specific cartridge built by a company, they did whatever they wanted to do.

Regarding the following comment, I am NOT saying that the members on AR have not measured the lead slug correctly as I have alot of respect for the knowledge of most members of AR.
With the 400 cal (450/400 3" or 3 1/4"), it is very difficult due to the odd number of lands/grooves to get an exact measurement and you have to measure the slug from the Corner of one groove to the corner of the other. This will give you the correct measurement. IF you measure exactly across with your calipres (or the preferred method of using a Micrometer but not everyone has one of these), you will more likely get a measurement of .408 or around here.

Like Ray Atkinson, I know (have been told) of 450/400's that measure differently, mostly above .409 up to .413 but I have not measured them myself so didn't include them in the figures of the original post.

I would totally agree with Ray that ANY english double rifle should all slugged BEFORE even Factory ammo is used.

LIMPINGJ

All of my doubles, even in the same calibres (450/400's, 470's, 500 Nitro's) have slightly different relaods to get them to shoot accurately / duplicate factory loads. I won't quote data as I use powders over here that are slightly different to yours (even if they ar made over here !!!) and plenty of people on AR who are in the US can give you SAFE load data.

Hope this helps.

500 Nitro

500,

I like 400 Nitro have only seen .408 caliber 3 inchs on this side of the pond.

Rusty
We band of brothers!

As a follow up on this, I am posting a copy of an email send to me by Kynamco, For what it is worth.

Mr. Knight,

Sorry for the delay in the response to your e-mail.

We use Woodleigh .408 or .411 400gr bullets, solid or soft nosed.

Cases for the .450/.400 Jeffery have a thicker rim to aid extraction and take
a .411 bullet. The earlier black powder versions of the .450/.400, 2 3/4", 3"
or 3 1/4", use the .408, weights varying 230-300gr. Nitro loads use a .408
400gr bullet.

Hope this helps you out some.

Please let us know if we can be of further aide to you.

Best Regards,

Melissa

Rusty
We band of brothers!

LIMPINJ,
Since no one else is bothering to answer your question, let me recommend that you get a copy of Any Shot You Want by A Square or Shooting the British Double Rifle by Grahaem Wright. Both books have loading data for both cartridges using a variety of powders. I've thought of doing the same thing, especially since reading Rifles for Africa by Gregor Woods. Damn, so many rifles, so little dough!

Mac,
Yes, I know it was never a black powder round. Just wanted to post the email as I had recieved it without editing it.

Rusty
We band of brothers!