Any data with the 350g woodleigh and 4350?

quote:

Originally posted by Dieseltrucker:
Rip,

Got the rifle back from the smith yesterday evening.

Congrats. That was fast, and so is your rifle.

First thing I did was step outside, attach my magnetospeed and fire a couple rounds to see the velocity. The factory .375 H&H Remington 270 core-lokts came in at 2609. Book says 2690 for them.

That is minimal velocity loss. Great trip-saver in a pinch to use the common .375 H&H ammo
in your .375 Wby.
'Twould be interesting to also see how your rifle does with 300-grain factory ammo.

I then tried a factory Weatherby .375 Weatherby with 300 partitions. I got 2802 out of my 24 inch barrel.

That is very fast for a 24" barrel.
Who made that barrel?
Tight barrel, hot lot of ammo, maybe a little of both?
Wonderful as long as there are no pressure signs.

I am very pleased with speed and actually was expecting low to mid 2700s. I will take to range and shoot for accuracy hopefully this weekend. I am going to try Norma 204 as the go to powder for this one.

When I dissected a factory load, I found 88.5 grains of powder that I only guessed was Norma 204,
since that is right next to H4350 on the burn-rate chart.
I'll scan the Norma manual section on the .375 Wby and post it for boom stick.

300 grain Barnes X and 300 Swift A-frame will be the softs. Cutting Edge brass 300 grainers for the solid. I will report once I have some qualitative data

All great bullets.
Note the 300-gr Swift A-Frame max load with N-204 is 88.2 grains (2746 fps in 26" barrel),
while the 300-gr Nosler Partition max load with N-204 is 90.4 grains (2782 fps in 26" barrel).

Sounds like you will be well satisfied with your new rifle.
Welcome to the .375 Weatherby Magnum Club.
DRSS ain't got nothin' on us.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Are you hoarding load data RIP?

boomie,

I quit looking for more data after I found H4350.
It is great with any bullet I want to shoot in the .375 Wby, which is mainly the 300-grain GSC HV.
That is my poor-man's combo that will do every bit as well as Saeed's 300-grain Walterhog and H4350 in his .375/404 Jeffery.
I like the ThermoBallisticIndependence of H4350.

Maybe a review of the Norma Reloading Manual (Vol. 2, 2013) will satisfy your curiosity a little.
Excerpts below are for book review purposes.
Book review: Good book.











Rip
.

quote:

Originally posted by GBE:
Any data with the 350g woodleigh and 4350?

GBE,

No hoarding of that data here.
But maybe sumbuddy who know will help us with that.

Rip
.

Rip,

The barrel is a factory Montana(as is the gun). Trust me, I was surprised as anyone. I looked at the casing and it does not show pressure signs. Grant it, it was only one round. I will do some more in depth testing as time allows.

Thanks for dissecting a loaded round. I was curious as to what he charge weight would be.


ANOTHER ISSUE -- now that I have the gun back, when I fire the rifle, work the bolt and get ready to fire another round, the firing pin is dropped. I took he stock off and it appears that the trigger/sear is not resetting. I applied compressed air to no avail. It only resets if I slam the bolt backward. I have alerted the smith, and he is none the wiser to the issue. HMMMM. Thoughts???

quote:

Originally posted by Dieseltrucker:
Rip,

The barrel is a factory Montana(as is the gun). Trust me, I was surprised as anyone. I looked at the casing and it does not show pressure signs.

MRC makes their own barrels, IIRC.

Grant it, it was only one round. I will do some more in depth testing as time allows.

Well that is not statistically significant, but hopefully not far off from a 5 or 10-shot mean, the more the better.

Thanks for dissecting a loaded round. I was curious as to what he charge weight would be.

Don't jump right in with that charge, start at least a few grains lower and work up, especially with those Swift A-Frames,which seem to be prone to higher pressures and lower velocities.

ANOTHER ISSUE -- now that I have the gun back, when I fire the rifle, work the bolt and get ready to fire another round, the firing pin is dropped. I took he stock off and it appears that the trigger/sear is not resetting. I applied compressed air to no avail. It only resets if I slam the bolt backward. I have alerted the smith, and he is none the wiser to the issue. HMMMM. Thoughts???

A certain godlike Gunsmith I know once bought a couple of early-on MRC actions and found that they had something funny going on with the cocking.
Hard to cock.
Turns out the cocking piece cams were soft.
He returned them and got new cocking pieces of proper hardness.
Problem might be with trigger also.
Check those with gunsmith.
It is above my pay grade.

Rip
.

Got out to the range today to check some factory loaded velocities as well as accuracy of the H&H in the Weatherby chamber.

It was 70 degrees, cloudy, 60% humidity. Magneto speed V3, all out of a MRC .375H&H rechambered to .375 Weatherby with .370 freebore:

Remington 270 grain core-lokts: 2627,2616
Nosler brand 300 Nolser solid: 2450
Swift brand 300 A-Frame: 2366
Remington Safari Grade 300 A-Frame: 2261
Weatherby .375 Weatherby 300 Partition: 2827,2808,2800,2815.

All loads shot within 2 inches at 100 yards! Specifically, the 300 grainers of the H&H were 1.5 inches high of the Weatherby. Very impressed. I think this has been one of the better ballistic decisions of 2017!

I got home and decided to dissect one of the Weatherby rounds. I used a collect to pull the Partition and the powder was very compressed. I was delicate as one can be in getting the powder out and and not dropping any. I weighed the charge at 92.4 grains. It is of the extruded variety. I have yet to receive my N204, but I suspect as many have, that that is indeed the powder. When looking at the max loads that Rip was so kind enough to post for us, it looks a solid 2.4 grains higher than book max from Norma.

Since I am going to be using TSX and A-Frames, I am going to start at 87 grains and work up from there.

Does anyone have any experience with TSXs and Weatherby freebore? I am curious as to how they react.

Finally, anyone crimping for the .375 Bee? I am leaning towards a crimp given the increase in recoil.

quote:

Originally posted by Dieseltrucker:
Got out to the range today to check some factory loaded velocities as well as accuracy of the H&H in the Weatherby chamber.

It was 70 degrees, cloudy, 60% humidity. Magneto speed V3, all out of a MRC .375H&H rechambered to .375 Weatherby with .370 freebore:

Remington 270 grain core-lokts: 2627,2616 normal
Nosler brand 300 Nolser solid: 2450 normal
Swift brand 300 A-Frame: 2366 slow
Remington Safari Grade 300 A-Frame: 2261 really slow
Weatherby .375 Weatherby 300 Partition: 2827,2808,2800,2815. really fast for a 24-incher, normal for a 26-incher

Great information!
Yes I noticed how fast your rifle is.
Your mileage may vary, as they say, rifles are different, each a law unto itself.
I would rather have a fast one than a slow one, all else equal.

I also deduce that the ammo companies cannot load the Swift A-Frame in .375 H&H
to normal 300-grainer velocity without excessive pressure.

All loads shot within 2 inches at 100 yards! Specifically, the 300 grainers of the H&H were 1.5 inches high of the Weatherby. Very impressed. I think this has been one of the better ballistic decisions of 2017!

Jahwol. Good in any year since 1944.

I got home and decided to dissect one of the Weatherby rounds. I used a collect to pull the Partition and the powder was very compressed. I was delicate as one can be in getting the powder out and and not dropping any. I weighed the charge at 92.4 grains. It is of the extruded variety. I have yet to receive my N204, but I suspect as many have, that that is indeed the powder. When looking at the max loads that Rip was so kind enough to post for us, it looks a solid 2.4 grains higher than book max from Norma.

Well, that is very different from the factory load of 2003.
But powder lots do change and recipes do change.
The grapevine says that the Alliant Reloder powders are just the reject lots from Norma,
hence why the Reloder powders may be great,
but have a high lot-to-lot variability.

Since I am going to be using TSX and A-Frames, I am going to start at 87 grains and work up from there.

I see no reason to use the Swift A-Frame if you can use the TSX, both in 300-grain weight.
You are going to have a great difference in pressures and velocities between those bullets for any given charge of powder.
You can work out the proper charges for both, and hopefully get the POIs close for the same POAs.
But that is a redundancy of 300-grainers IMHO. I like the TSX better for all-around use, on anything.
The only thing better would be the GSC HV.

Sticking with the 300-grain Nosler partition is not a bad idea.
For a softer and better BC bullet, the Sierra GameKing is a great one.
I have found that a given powder charge produces very close to same external ballistics
with both of those bullets, Nosler Partition, and Sierra GameKing,
as well as top-end speeds and excellent accuracy, a good pairing of two 300-grain softs, if you must.
Sierra GameKings are great practice bullets if you are using Nosler Partitions on game.
I forget whether there is a Sierra plastic-tipped .375/300-grainer now,
but I need to look around at all the other available high-BC 300-grainers available now ...
I have been away from the .375-cal for a few years,
and the times they are always a-changin', as always.

Does anyone have any experience with TSXs and Weatherby freebore? I am curious as to how they react.

Yes, I have loaded the .375/300-grain TSX for both 3.6" and 3.8"-boxed magazine rifles,
of .375 WbyMag chambering.
Same for the .375/404 Jeffery Saeed of 2012 which I had built with the same throat as you have on your .375 Wby.

No problems.
The bullet length in my notes is 1.493".
Nose projection is 0.708".
You have the short and long COL choices at max brass length:
3.568"
or
3.793"

Both work well in the .375 WbyMag, the longer loading might be a little more accurate.
The .375/300-grain Barnes TSX is capable of sub-MOA with either length.
But it might be sub-MOA for short load, though sub-0.5-MOA for the long load.

Finally, anyone crimping for the .375 Bee? I am leaning towards a crimp given the increase in recoil.

I always crimp if there is a cannelure, a groove, or a drive-band to back it up.
The short and long COLs above are when crimped in a groove of the Barnes TSX.
If you can get them, the GSC HV might be more accurate than the Barnes TSX, both as 300-grainers.
The Barnes .375/250-grain TTSX is another great bullet for the .375 WbyMag as a PG and varmint rifle.

Rip
.

350gr Woodleigh and H-4831sc. I started workup at 84gr. Topped out at 88gr at 2510fps (10 shot ave). I seat the bullet long with no crimp. Fire formed Win 375HH brass and Fed 215 primers. Safe in my rifle. Work up and watch for pressure.
Very accurate bullet in my rifle.

Rip,

I have ordered some GSC HV 375 300 grainers to try. I read on GS's website and the theory makes sense as to the performance of the HV. Is that design analogous to the Walterhog of Saeed's? Any tips for loading these?

quote:

Originally posted by Yentna River:
350gr Woodleigh and H-4831sc. I started workup at 84gr. Topped out at 88gr at 2510fps (10 shot ave). I seat the bullet long with no crimp. Fire formed Win 375HH brass and Fed 215 primers. Safe in my rifle. Work up and watch for pressure.
Very accurate bullet in my rifle.

Yentna River,

Sounds good.
What is your barrel length?

Now that we have some actual Woodleigh .375/350-grainer data as above,
here is what I got with some Barnes Originals
(from the original ar.com table, corrected to MV),
and also the 350-grainer section of the first Barnes Reloading Manual, of 1992.
I think all of the below will also work just fine with Woodleigh 350-grainers.
None of my 350-grainer data was excessive, I just quit because my shoulder was getting sore.



The Barnes manual data, excerpted for book review purposes.
Book review: Good book.




(Note the error on the brass length, it is supposed to be 2.860" maximum, not 2.875".)

Rip
.

quote:

Originally posted by Dieseltrucker:
Rip,

I have ordered some GSC HV 375 300 grainers to try.

Good on you! I have an order in for some .458/400-grain HV bullets to try in my .458 WinMag WinCzechster, Rugersoli and other rifles.
I have routinely found that the GSC HV is more accurate than the Barnes TSX.
Any velocity-gaining or pressure-lowering advantages are minimal, but accuracy advantages are there in spades!

I read on GS's website and the theory makes sense as to the performance of the HV. Is that design analogous to the Walterhog of Saeed's?

It is about as close to a Walterhog as you are going to get, unless you have a custom-made copy done, like the Bridgers.
They might even be better than a Walterhog.
All of Saeed's groups might shrink from 0.1 MOA to 0.05 MOA if he would use the GSC HV.

Any tips for loading these?

Just load them like Saeed does his Walterhogs.
Start with 85.0 grains of H4350 and work up,
looking for a sweet spot on accuracy and velocity.
I suspect Saeed has a short throat on his .375/404 Jeffery.
Your C.I.P. chambered .375 Weatherby Magnum can handle any of Saeed's loads,
if you are using the properly-headstamped, Norma-made, .375 WbyMag brass.

And that is why I used the C.I.P. throat for the .375 Weatherby on my reverse-engineered .375/404 Jeffery Saeed of 2012,
since the original wildcat throat is COSMIC SQUIRREL SECRET.

Rip
.

Hey Rip,

24” ss Remington barrel. So far the 350 woodleigh PP is the most accurate bullet in my rifle.

Might try MRP/RL22 just to see if I can get more velocity and still maintain accuracy. Thanks for posting that data for us Rip.

Steve,

With the excellent results you showed,
you might be best off just sticking with your current H4831SC
in your 24"-barreled, fast rifle, or fast lot of powder, or both.

The heavier the bullet, the greater the advantage of the .375 Wby over the .375 H&H,
IMHO.

If I were going to do a shoot-off with 350-grainers, I would use H4350, not the old IMR-4350 I used previously,
and compare it to both H4831SC and MRP.
Where I left it in 2003-2004,
I was indeed most impressed with MRP.
But remember,
RL-22 might be a reject lot of MRP that Norma shipped off to Alliant for repackaging.

I did not get to a maximal load with 350-grain bullet.
It would be interesting to add powder until some pressure sign showed,
or at least to +2600 fps in a 24" barrel,
yours or mine.
Maybe another super-accurate load would rear its head along the way.

Rip
.

quote:

Originally posted by Slider:
Very informative.

Thanks again!!

Very timely. For some time I have debated the 378 Weatherby versus a new 375 Weatherby on one of my Model 70s. I think I have seen what to do. Man this is data - it is great. Thanks.

RIP - here is a question for you.

I wonder if the 375 Forster micrometer seating die can be used on the the Weatherby loadings?

Why would I ask?

I have lots of Redding dies and the mic dies too. I have found over time that those mic dies really contribute to good round concentric ammo. But Redding doesnt make a mic seater for either the Weatherby or the H&H in 375 that I saw. But Forster does make a 375. I can't see why it wouldn't work but I have not ever used the Forster dies though.

The case dimension of the Wby neck above is 0.405 where the H&H is 0.402 and some length difference. Maybe the inner of the Forster could be honed to fit?

Another plus, if it will do it, as I have understood it before is that the Forster die can load with some compression where the Redding does not as it warps the inner sleeve.

Any other inputs are great too.

The only micrometer seater die I have is the one for .408 Chey-Tac, made by Chey-Tac USA.
It is nice, works well.

Let us know if you decide what .375-caliber rifle chambering you want.

I have found no particular need for a micrometer seater in the .375 Wby.Mag.
The current CIP .375 Weatherby Magnum throat is very forgiving:
Only .0006" greater than bullet diameter and 0.3700" long, just under caliber length, in the parallel-sided free-bore.
The Goldilocks of rifles: .375 Weatherby.


Anyone who claims the .458 Winchester Magnum is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own sheepishness.
Rip ...

I am going for Goldilocks.

quote:

Originally posted by TexKD:
I am going for Goldilocks.

That is what the Three Bears all said.
Smart!

Anyone who claims the .458 Winchester Magnum is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own sheepishness.
Rip...

I have a couple of pages of reloading data I worked up some years ago..I can dig it out..I used the 350 gr. .375 H&H on Buffalo and it was my favorite soft..I worked with Geoff to design such a bullet..I wanted a RN SP and Geoff said the PP would be better..so he made both, btw my test revealed he was more correct than I...but I still like the RN for bush hunting in herds, and the PP for all else as it has more penetrations and both bullets are the same length, length was the same due to the different ojive, Geoffs a smarter guy than I, as it should be in his biz..Today I bow to his suggestins and use the PP for almost everything..but I still have a supply of the RN,he gave me. They bring out the nostalgic in me! and a lot of other folks also it seems. If you wish I will locate my load data and forward it to you, however I probably didn't use 4350, more likely 4064 for the most part, but who knows, long term memory fades as fast as short term these days..

Hi all,
Have some info and questions, a bit late to this thread, I know.
I had my Model 70 Classic Stainless re-chambered with a .500” freebore reamer.
The velocities I get are impressive, 260gr Accubond @ 3006fps, 270gr Woodleigh PP @ 2946fps and 300gr Woodleigh PP @ 2848fps. The powders used are H4350 & Win 760, loads average a tad over 90gr with all 3 bullets.

None of these loads produce excessive pressure over my Pressure Trace II, however they are at max.

My question:
Is the longer freebore, and therefore the larger loads I can use safely, the ONLY reason for the higher velocity or am I missing something?

I have checked these loads periodically over 15 years and they swing around 15-20fps depending on time of year and ambient conditions.

What is your take on this?

Cheers.

You did not say what your barrel length was.
Is it 26"?
Is that a 0.500" length of parallel-sided free-bore instead of the CIP 0.370" length?
Is the parallel-sided free-bore diameter of your rifle's chamber 0.3756" like CIP?
And what is your twist rate and bore and groove diameter?
What make of barrel?

2800 fps with the 300-grain Nosler Partition factory ammo is routine in most .375 Weatherby factory rifles.
You are not at warp speed with 2848 fps.
And you are having no problems, even say pressures have been checked and are within limits.

I think you just wanted to brag about an outstanding rifle of yours.
Well done! Great to hear! This adds to the .375 Weatherby Legend.
But if we are to micro-analyze your success we have to be sure we know what we are talking about.

Anyone who claims the .458 Winchester Magnum is ineffective has either not tried one, or is suffering from .458 Winchester Magnum Derangement Syndrome.
Rip...

RIP
would this data for the .375 WBY also work
for the .375 AI standard chamber???? Adjusting
for bullet and magazine length. Rifle is pre-64
Mod 70 with std. bottom metal in original wood stock
with extra cross bolts.
Have enjoyed thread, thanks for posting.

Tetonka
DRSS

quote:

Originally posted by tetonka:
RIP
would this data for the .375 WBY also work
for the .375 AI standard chamber???? Adjusting
for bullet and magazine length. Rifle is pre-64
Mod 70 with std. bottom metal in original wood stock
with extra cross bolts.
Have enjoyed thread, thanks for posting.

Tetonka
DRSS

Yes! That is what I shoot, on a Mauser MK-X.

RIP,

I agree that 416RigbyHunter's 2848 fps with the 300 Woodleigh is definitely possible with 90 gr of powder and a 26" barrel. My 375 WBY Mod 70 with 24" barrel gives 2765 fps with 86 gr. of H 4350 and a 300 gr NF. If I remember the Woodleigh has a relatively short overall length compared to the NF or TSX allowing for a little more powder space and still keeping the OACL at 3.57" to function through the M70 action reliably.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by tsturm:

quote:

Originally posted by tetonka:
RIP
would this data for the .375 WBY also work
for the .375 AI standard chamber???? Adjusting
for bullet and magazine length. Rifle is pre-64
Mod 70 with std. bottom metal in original wood stock
with extra cross bolts.
Have enjoyed thread, thanks for posting.

Tetonka
DRSS

Yes! That is what I shoot, on a Mauser MK-X.

Tetonka,

What I know about it is that the Dave Kiff reamer drawing for the "375 Ack Mag Imp" showed this throat:
PSFB length = 0.2000"
PSFB diameter = 0.3760"
Leade angle = 2*00'00"

The 2002 CIP specs for the .375 Weatherby Magnum throat (Weatherby revamp of 2001):
PSFB length = 0.3700"
PSFB diameter = 0.3756"
Leade angle = 1*05'20"
(Dave Manson reamer drawing is same except for leade angle = 1*07'00" a negligible difference, though said to be CIP,
it does technically satisfy the chamber "minimum" leade angle.)

I will also note that most .375 Ackley Magnum Improved shooters seem to take a holier-than-thou attitude
toward any redneck who would shoot a .375 Weatherby Magnum,
and they usually claim all kinds of wonders due to their Ackley chambering.
Case capacity difference is about 1 grain or negligible,
the make of brass will decide which case is bigger.
Hint: Fire-form the Norma-made .375 Weatherby Brass and trim it down to .375 Ackley Magnum Improved length
and your .375 ACK might be 1 grain of water bigger than the .375 WBY.
But if you make your brass out of anything else,
the .375 WBY with properly headstamped stuff from Norma
will most likely have a few grains of water advantage over the .375 ACK.

But there is no SAAMI or CIP standard for the .375 Ackley Magnum Improved is there?
It is a wildcat or proprietary cartridge that could differ from Dave Kiff's reamer.

All I can say is it is OK to use the .375 Weatherby Magnum starting loads.
Work up cautiously from there and maybe you won't KABOOM your rifle.

Anyone who claims the .458 Winchester Magnum is ineffective has either not tried one, or is suffering from .458 Winchester Magnum Derangement Syndrome.
Rip...

RIP

Thanks for the info. My smith just happened to
have the AI reamer at the time and not the WBY. Not sure
I would ever want to do it but some will interchange
the cartridges. Not sure they will even chamber properly.
I'll do more study on your info. Many thanks for
posting. My Mod 70 was originally .300 H&H, rebarreled to 300 WBY and rebarreled to 375 AI. I
still have all 3 bbls.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
You did not say what your barrel length was.
Is it 26"?
Is that a 0.500" length of parallel-sided free-bore instead of the CIP 0.370" length?
Is the parallel-sided free-bore diameter of your rifle's chamber 0.3756" like CIP?
And what is your twist rate and bore and groove diameter?
What make of barrel?

2800 fps with the 300-grain Nosler Partition factory ammo is routine in most .375 Weatherby factory rifles.
You are not at warp speed with 2848 fps.
And you are having no problems, even say pressures have been checked and are within limits.

I think you just wanted to brag about an outstanding rifle of yours.
Well done! Great to hear! This adds to the .375 Weatherby Legend.
But if we are to micro-analyze your success we have to be sure we know what we are talking about.

Anyone who claims the .458 Winchester Magnum is ineffective has either not tried one, or is suffering from .458 Winchester Magnum Derangement Syndrome.
Rip...

Sorry RIP, the barrel is the factory 24” tube, no alterations other then the re-chambering.

Was not my intention to brag, just needed some input as to the higher velocity. Even as a H&H chamber, this rifle produced 2650fps with 300gr Woodleigh PP’s without excessive pressures.

Cheers.

We hear about fast rifles now and then,
and wonder if it is the chronograph or the pressure measuring equipment that needs to be re-calibrated,
or is it just miraculous?
Sure cannot figure it out by a psychic reading.
My rifle similar to yours but with CIP chamber is not so fast.
Sumbuddywhoknow how such a miracle occurs?

A value packed thread...

My 375 Wby is built on a Zastava Remington 798 action.

I found a new "375" barrel (not stamped) in the gunsmithing department of my local gun store. Had it reamed to 375 Weatherby. The barrel is 25" long and is as accurate as any I've owned.

I ditched the Remington stock and dropped it into a Bell and Carlson Medalist stock.

It shoots North Fork 300 gr soft points into sub MOA groups.

.375 Weatherby Magnum: Yep, just right, Goldilocks.

New powder needing a trial: Reloder-16

Goldilocks riding a fire-breathing dragon like on GAME OF THRONES ...



Summer is coming!

Rip ...

I have a 375 Weatherby reamer if someone else would like to join the party.

My 375 Weatherby is for sale and in "Classifieds Firearms Only" here on AR.

It's been there awhile and I'd like to move it.

Take a look

LRich

SafariAmmo.net has 375 Weatherby brass on sale at a good price.