My First Big Bore

24 November 2003, 15:51

AKJD

My First Big Bore

My wife and I made a weekend trip to the big city (Anchorage) to do some Christmas shopping and while there I decided to visit a few of the gun shops. I have been looking for a 375 H&H of some type and was leaning towards a Winchester. I didn't want the Stainless and wanted something lighter than the Safari Express. Unfortunately Winchester is not making a rifle comparable to the Stainless Classic in Blued steel and Walnut. I hadn't really considered it, but the Counter man handed me a Pre-64 Model 70, the price was a little higher than I wanted to pay. I left empty handed. We went on our way and tended to some other shopping, my wife kept making a comment about this strange look I had in my eyes, sort of a far off stare. Well, before I know what is happening, I am walking out of the gun shop with my new (to me) Pre 64 Model 70 Winchester in 375 H&H. To top it off, the owner took out his Westly Richards 8 bore Double Rifle and let me take a look. I've never had the opportunity to handle a rifle like that and it was a great experience. I couldn't believe how heavy it was and the size of the bore was huge. I haven't stopped smiling since yesterday. Tommorrow I will get to loading some ammo and hopefully get to the range before the end of the week. Who cares if its 10 degrees out. [Big Grin]

24 November 2003, 16:16

Mingbogo

Congratulations! A pre-64 big bore in good condition at a fair price is getting difficult to find nowadays so consider youself lucky to own one. Let us know how she shoots. Thanks.

24 November 2003, 17:00

Atkinson

AKJD,
You made a good deal, the pre 64 M-70 Win. is head and shoulders a better rifle than ANY new manufactured rifle out there today that its not even a question of whos right, not even an opinnion, it is better, end of story...It and the Mod 98 Mauser is the creme de creme of gundom, any son of a seventh son knows that! [Smile]

25 November 2003, 00:14

Well done you will love the .375 round !! Try some Hornady Round Nose 300 gr, there good accuarate bullets.

25 November 2003, 01:22

BusMaster007

Cool story.
Good for you and have fun with your 'new' rifle!
Congratulations to you, also, for having a Wife that knows and loves you so much.

25 November 2003, 06:38

Bill/Oregon

AKJD: I'm with Bus. I am happy for you regarding the Model 70 in .375, but having a wife who understands these matters is priceless!

25 November 2003, 06:47

RIP

Great day at Great Northern Guns? Or was it The Roosevelt Room? Congratulations. You have the best, in many ways.

25 November 2003, 06:59

Dago Red

I agree, the Pre-64 is fantastic, but the wife letting you do it is priceless! Let us know how it shoots.

Red

25 November 2003, 07:09

mstarling

The .375 H&H is a terrific cartidge ... enough without being overwhelming. Easy to load for with a wide range of good and available projectiles.

The per-64 M70 is a wonderful rifle. I have only one, but it is the one that would pain me most to lose.

And having a wife that understands ... indeed, Priceless!

You had a very, very good day!!!!

25 November 2003, 08:47

500grains

quote:
Originally posted by Atkinson:
AKJD,
You made a good deal, the pre 64 M-70 Win. is head and shoulders a better rifle than ANY new manufactured rifle out there today that its not even a question of whos right, not even an opinnion, it is better, end of story...It and the Mod 98 Mauser is the creme de creme of gundom, any son of a seventh son knows that!

Pass the grains of salt!!!

The metallurgy of pre-64's is poor. When they let go, they come apart like a hand grenade.

25 November 2003, 10:32

fla3006

I have a pre-64 375H&H. You'll love it and won't regret your decision even if it cost more than you wanted to spend. They aren't making any more of them.

25 November 2003, 17:07

AKJD

Thanks everyone, yes I have a great wife. Picked up some brass, bullets, RL15 and another can of Varget today. I don't know if I'll get to do any shooting this week, supposed to get down to -20 in the next couple days.

500grains, If it blows, I'll duck really quick. [Roll Eyes]

25 November 2003, 17:54

Antlers

JD, congrats on a nice rifle and a nice wife - great combination. I've got a wife who compares but, they dont make pre-64s in left hand.

25 November 2003, 18:23

Holmes

quote:
Originally posted by 500grains:
[QBThe metallurgy of pre-64's is poor. When they let go, they come apart like a hand grenade.[/QB]

If this was indeed a common problem then how is it the Model 70 earned and enjoyed a fine reputation amongst not only the working class hunters but also among the professional hunting sector that used the rifles in less than ideal field conditions and against game that had a habit of biting back?

While no particular arm from any manufacturer is the perfect fault free rifle, the Model 70 certainly rose to the top and stayed there until the poor management decisions realised in 1964.

Your comment is a sweeping generalisation that is not only predominantly inaccurate, it is unfair.

If the Model 70s were plagued with consistent metallurgical deficiencies throughout the decades of it's construction, the American and international sportsmen would never have placed it upon the pedestal as such.

I am most proud to own one of these dangerous anachronisms!

25 November 2003, 19:02

vapodog

I have a friend in Montana with a pre-64 M-70 in .375 H&H. I've been trying to buy it from him.....sadly he remembers my 28 Ga side by side model 21 and only wants to trade.

I did the next best thing, I bought a douglas #3 .375 XX grade barrel and a Montana 1999 action and ordered a McMillan stock.

That shotgun ain't going anywhere.

25 November 2003, 19:52

RIP

vapodog,
I put a .375 cal. Douglas No. 3 Premium stainless barrel on a Pre-64 action from a 300 H&H, with a Brown Precision "Pounder" stock and it is swell. You may have to put a little weight in the forearm of the McMillan stock to make the gun balance with that wonderful lightweight barrel. Should be sweet. Maybe my 6.75 lbs. .375 H&H could stand to be a bit heavier, but it balances when light in the barrel and the butt.

26 November 2003, 04:20

500grains

quote:
Originally posted by Holmes:

quote:
Originally posted by 500grains:
[QBThe metallurgy of pre-64's is poor. When they let go, they come apart like a hand grenade.
If this was indeed a common problem then how is it the Model 70 earned and enjoyed a fine reputation amongst not only the working class hunters but also among the professional hunting sector that used the rifles in less than ideal field conditions and against game that had a habit of biting back?

While no particular arm from any manufacturer is the perfect fault free rifle, the Model 70 certainly rose to the top and stayed there until the poor management decisions realised in 1964.

Your comment is a sweeping generalisation that is not only predominantly inaccurate, it is unfair.

If the Model 70s were plagued with consistent metallurgical deficiencies throughout the decades of it's construction, the American and international sportsmen would never have placed it upon the pedestal as such.

I am most proud to own one of these dangerous anachronisms![/QB]

Good Lord man, read up on rifle actions and find out their strengths and weaknesses! You are praising the sales figures, aesthetics and popularity of the model 70, and then conclude that the metallurgy is fine. There is no logic there.

If overpressurized (wrong ammo, wrong powder, barrel obstruction, etc.), model 70's have time and again blown up completely while mausers and other actions held together under similar conditions. Experts in the field attribute it to poor metallurgy in the pre-64's. No matter what the sales figures or finish of these rifles are, that does not change the metallurgy.

If you want a safe rifle, a post-64 model 70 classic is the way to go. If you want a pre-64, that's fine but it would be better not to do the ostrich thing.

By the way, did I mention that pre-64's do not do a good job of diverting exhaust gases away from the shooter's eyes when a case ruptures?

26 November 2003, 05:17

RIP

Do we need to make a distinction between Pre-War and later Pre-64 M-70?

I have heard the old saw about Pre-64 M70's being of inferior metallurgy, but all guns were before WWII, after which improved gun steels were widely available, due to metallurgical advancements brought by military developments.

How about the 1950's Pre-64 M70? Was not the metallurgy improved by then?

The Pre-War Winchesters were known more for the handwork done to make them function flawlessly, and wood to metal fit and final finish, as that was their special charm.

Yes, the Pre-64 M-70 does have the Springfield breech type of poor gas handling, with a straight shot down the left bolt raceway towards the shooters face with a case rupture.

Surely Ray could comment on this, as he was getting out of diapers about the time the M70 was born, and might have heard of exploding Pre-64 M70's and any gas venting problems.