a Second 475 A&M joins the family - a Custom Weatherby w/ Carved Bubinga Stock

Hello All,

You may recall this post from 3 years ago ... My first 475 A&M with an interesting history.

http://forums.accuratereloadin...061074532#8061074532

Well, I now have a second rifle in 475 A&M caliber. You may have seen it for auction on Gun Broker ... Here's some of the description:

" ... A VINTAGE, CUSTOM, WEATHERBY, “MARK V” RIFLE ... RE-BARRELED BY FAMOUS GUNSMITH, MARK PENROD (MANCHESTER, IND) WITH A MAG-NA-PORTED, 26-INCH BARREL CHAMBERED FOR THE “.475 A&M MAGNUM” CARTRIDGE (MORE POWERFUL THAN THE .460 WEATHERBY CARTRIDGE). THIS RIFLE HAS A BEAUTIFUL STOCK, CARVED WITH A FIGURE OF A CAPE BUFFALO ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE STOCK. THE STOCK IS STAMPED “R.E. HUBINEK, ENGRAVER”. MOUNTED ON THIS RIFLE IS A “REDFIELD” 3X9 SCOPE WITH A DUPLEX RETICLE. THE BASE AND SCOPE RINGS ARE BY “BUELHER” AND THE RINGS ARE ENGRAVED. THERE A FEW LIGHT HANDLING MARKS ON THIS RIFLE ... THE BORE IS BRIGHT AND THE ACTION FUNCTIONS PROPERLY! ... "

With it in hand, here are a few more specs:

Action: 1978 Weatherby Mark V
Barrel: Custom by Mark Penron - built in 1980 - second recoil lug added
Weight: 10 lbs 15-1/2 oz - 11-1/2 lbs loaded
LOP: 14"
Stock: Carved African Bubinga Wood w/ Tiger Maple Forend Tip & Grip Cap w/ spacers (the Cape Buffalo's eyes are tiny Platinum Pins)
Stock: Action and barrel area are glass bedded with steel cross-bars added in the bedding behind the barrel lugs.

I'm still trying to research the History. So far I know it was owned by an Illinois man who hunted regularly in Africa with this rifle. He passed away about a year ago. Hoping to find more about him, and how this rifle came to be built.

As always, comments are welcome.

I kind of liked the first one better.


But I can dig this one OK. You Da-Man buckstix !

Definitely could use the WBY MK V DGR drop floorplate if it only holds two down.
And a different scope if a scope is meant for actual use.

Beyond that, all it lacks is a knife between the teeth of the buffalo, carved on the buttstock.



Not so distant relative of the .470 Mbogo by Dave Estergaard,
it's funny how Dave's cartridge cannot get anywhere near the ballistics claimed for the same-sized .475 A&M.
Could it be possible that the .475 A&M is throated like a .458 Winchester Magnum scaled up to .475-caliber ?
That would explain it !

.458 TRUMP
.458 Winchester Magnum Perfection
Nota bene: In maxima potentia parvum spatium.
Id venit et vicit omnis.

I built a wildcat on this caliber based on the 416 Rigby case.

The idea was to take it hunting to Africa, then found the 375/404 would be more suitable for everything.

I have not shot it for a long time, for lack of bullets.

I will make some and try it.

John Buhmiller started this all by necking the .378 Weatherby up to .510" back in the 1960's. He then tried .45 caliber bullets and the .460 Weatherby was born.

I took a different route, by shortening the Weatherby case to 2.50" before necking it up to .505 and created my .505 Short Range Express in the late 1960's. I took my first elephant with it in 1971. John Buhmiller supplied the barrel.






The .505 SRE is the one in the middle, between the .450 C&W and the .577 VSRE. The bullet is the 570 grain Kynoch .510" bullet I swaged down to .505" and used with it. The .450 C&W went to Africa with me in 1974, but didn't get tried out on elephant, as the ban on elephant hunting in Kenya was already in effect, much to my annoyance.

Kind of assinine to carve your name on the bottom of a rifle after you carve and engrave it.

That could have been hidden below the stock line on the metal or in the barrel channel.

I would have lost it on that jerk if I'd have seen that.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
I kind of liked the first one better.

But I can dig this one OK. You Da-Man buckstix !

Hello RIP
Thankd for the reply.

I like them BOTH equally. Its kinda like which of your kids do you like better.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I built a wildcat on this caliber based on the 416 Rigby case.

The idea was to take it hunting to Africa, then found the 375/404 would be more suitable for everything.

I have not shot it for a long time, for lack of bullets.

I will make some and try it.

Hello Saeed,
Thanks for the reply.

That also sounds like a great wildcat.

quote:

Originally posted by xausa:
John Buhmiller started this all by necking the .378 Weatherby up to .510" back in the 1960's. He then tried .45 caliber bullets and the .460 Weatherby was born.

I took a different route, by shortening the Weatherby case to 2.50" before necking it up to .505 and created my .505 Short Range Express in the late 1960's. I took my first elephant with it in 1971. John Buhmiller supplied the barrel.

The .505 SRE is the one in the middle, between the .450 C&W and the .577 VSRE. The bullet is the 570 grain Kynoch .510" bullet I swaged down to .505" and used with it. The .450 C&W went to Africa with me in 1974, but didn't get tried out on elephant, as the ban on elephant hunting in Kenya was already in effect, much to my annoyance.

Hello xausa,
Thanks for the reply

I'd still like to have that one to join the others in my family.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Wonderful Wyoming:
Kind of assinine to carve your name on the bottom of a rifle after you carve and engrave it.

That could have been hidden below the stock line on the metal or in the barrel channel.

I would have lost it on that jerk if I'd have seen that.

Hello Big Wonderful Wyoming,
Thanks for the reply

Well, it will depend on what I find out about the man who carved this. I don't mind that he signed his work. Rembrandt didn't hide his signature.
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I just got back from shooing this rifle at the range. I had to make a second trip. On the first trip I found that the ammo that was loaded for my other 475 a&m wouldn't chamber. Apparently since it was a wildcat, there's a lot of minor differences in dimensions. I should have tried a round BEFORE I went to the range.

I modified one of my 475 a&m die sets to fit this rifle's chamber. (I actually had 2 sets of dies) I shaved a little off the bottom to push the shoulder back about .025 inches. the target below shows the results. The rings on this target are 3/4" apart, not 1", so the 3-shot group measures exactly 3/4" center-to-center. (fired supported-standing)

Load was 70g AA5744 w/ 500g Hawk soft nose & WLRM primers. Velocity was a little over 2000 fps. Plenty fast enough for me.

Although the 3x9 scope may be a little over-kill, it seemed to work fine. Clear optics for longer shooting, and at 3x all you have to do is center the intended victim in the field of view for up close shooting. The rifle is sighted 2" high at 50yds = 3.1" high at 100 yds = 1.5" high at 150 yds = -3.15" low at 200 yds. And at 200 yds it still has 2800 ft/lbs energy.

This load is fun .....

It is a beautiful rifle!

Glad you were able to build some ammo to shoot.

Well, it shoots, that what really matters.

Quite ornate, to say the least.

It reminds me of one of those 18th century carved and inlaid Ottoman flintlocks - on anabolic steroids!

As for ballistics, there is no way the .475 A&M Mag. is a 9-10K ft.-lb. cartridge. There is a lot of blue sky in those numbers.

Still, I'm sure it will deliver a wallop on both ends!

quote:

Originally posted by Big Wonderful Wyoming:
It is a beautiful rifle!

Glad you were able to build some ammo to shoot.

Hello Big Wonderful Wyoming,
Thanks for the reply

Yes, I'm lucky I had 2 sets of dies, so I could modify one.

quote:

Originally posted by Fjold:
Well, it shoots, that what really matters.

Hello Fjold,
Thanks for the reply

Very True!

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
Quite ornate, to say the least.

It reminds me of one of those 18th century carved and inlaid Ottoman flintlocks - on anabolic steroids!

As for ballistics, there is no way the .475 A&M Mag. is a 9-10K ft.-lb. cartridge. There is a lot of blue sky in those numbers.

Still, I'm sure it will deliver a wallop on both ends!

Hello Michael Robinson,
Thanks for the reply

I'm not likely to test its limits to find out, but PO Ackley's data shows a 500g SP at 2980 ft/sec which is 9,850 ft/lbs - that's pretty close to the aforementioned 10,000 ft/lb figure.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I built a wildcat on this caliber based on the 416 Rigby case.

The idea was to take it hunting to Africa, then found the 375/404 would be more suitable for everything.

I have not shot it for a long time, for lack of bullets.

I will make some and try it.

Saeed,
Your .475/.416 Rigby definitely deserves some monometal bullets if it can get a 500 grainer to 2700 fps like Dave Estergaard's 470 Mbogo.

Who did it first ? Saeed or Dave ?
Probably John Buhmiller in the 1950's.
Dave's reamer by JGS was dated 11/08/2002.
There was a previous drawing by JGS for Dave in September 2002.
I do not know if that was the origin, i.e., whether or not any earlier reamers existed.

It is laughable to think the .475 A&M was hyped to do 2980 fps with a 500-grainer.

buckstix is resisting making me an offer on this one.
So I thought I would be a tease.
Anyone who cannot handle it may click on the "hide post" function.

Below is my 470 Mbogo that I presume will beat a .475 A&M.
Metal work by Rusty McGee, stock work and filing of rear sight by BB&BMT, Ltd.
Bubba also does stock work when he can't find a synthetic to fit one of the shop mules.
Yes I am presumptuous and enjoy an ugly rifle that is accurate,
so buckstix's latest .475 A&M is a nice one.









Filed and zeroed by Bubba:



Custom scope bases cut from stainless steel Virgin Valley one-piece bases and 8X40-ed by Rusty McGee.
Bubba applied the J-B WELD under them:



Bubba learned to checker on this laminate.
He messed up the lightning bolt on the right side of forearm and had to add "high class" epoxy inlays to hide the booboos.
Lightning bolt on left side was flawlessly electrocuted, I mean executed !





The less sophisticated may not realize what the goober on the grip is:



It is "Selous Sideplates":



In other words a crack started developing behind the tang of the action.
Bubba went to work before another shot was fired.
A tiny crossbolt was hidden in epoxy behind the tang (generously relieved as seen above),
stainless steel wire was wrapped around the grip,
a long-axis-of-grip bolt was hidden in epoxy,
and the whole mess was cleverly disguised with J-B Weld and bumps of clear epoxy for texturing.
It is like the "Power Glove of Thor" that enables the god of thunder to wield his hammer.
Nice little palm swell too.
4 crossbolts and one long-axis rod, wire and epoxy Selous Sideplates, epoxy covered inside and out,
and the rifle as pictured weighs but 10.5 pounds, without scope and rings.
Might get it down to 9.5 pounds with a B&C CZ 550 Magnum "Medalist-Style" stock,
if I could make one of those fit the BBK-02.



The epoxy has yellowed with age. Maxwell's Silver Hammer is now FOOLS'GOLD !

quote:

Hello Michael Robinson,
Thanks for the reply

I'm not likely to test its limits to find out, but PO Ackley's data shows a 500g SP at 2980 ft/sec which is 9,850 ft/lbs - that's pretty close to the aforementioned 10,000 ft/lb figure.

It’s the same case as the .378, and more to the point, the .460 Weatherby.

The latter of which, quite optimistically, gets 2,600 fps with 500 grain bullets.

Not 2,980 fps.

The .460 Roy gets approximately 8K ft.-lbs. of ME, not 10K.

Just saying.

quote:

THIS RIFLE HAS A BEAUTIFUL STOCK, CARVED

To say the least.

The carving I am sure took great talent.

Nice find.

quote:

So I thought I would be a tease.
Anyone who cannot handle it may click on the "hide post" function

I like buying guns done by bubba the prices are very reasonable most of the time.

But some are very proud of their work for
sure.

This is a very interesting one for sure.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
" ....Definitely could use the WBY MK V DGR drop floorplate if it only holds two down.

Hello RIP
Thanks for the reply.

I just got off the phone with Weatherby. They want $170 for the "Plus-One" kit to add another round to the mag. - 60 days delivery.

Not sure I'd really need it myself because I'm not likely going to Africa any time soon.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

To say the least.

The carving I am sure took great talent.

Nice find.

Hello p dog shooter,
Thanks for the reply.

More talent than I have!

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
This is a very interesting one for sure.

The words of a RIFLEMAN.
Put it in a custom walnut stock with a Triple-X Magnum recoil pad covered with leather
and it would extend some pinky fingers.

Debunking the hype of the .475 A&M:




Compare it to the bigger and badder 470 Mbogo:




The Clymer reamer for the 1958 vintage .475 A&M was dated 2003 and shows a 32-degree shoulder angle.
The JGS .470 Mbogo reamer drawings I have seen come from 2002, and show a 35-degree shoulder.

They both have same parallel-sided-free-bore of 0.476" diameter and 0.400" length.
The .475 A&M leade hemi-angle is 2.5 degrees versus 1.5 drgrees for the .470 Mbogo.

Any insignificant throat advantage goes to the .470 Mbogo, for more gradual leade.
A more significant case capacity advantage goes to the .470 Mbogo.

With a 500-grain bullet, the 470 Mbogo has about a 50 fps MV advantage over the .475 A&M,
and the 470 Mbogo is hard pressed to make 2700 fps with the 500-grainer.
QuickLOAD does not allow for throat effects.
It over-estimates pressure and velocity greatly for the .458 WM,
not so much for the .475 A&M and .470 Mbogo.
Both will make pretty good .470 NE simulators with same loads as used in the .470 NE.
The .470 Mbogo is better at that.
That's why I never felt the need for a Ruger No. 1 rebarrel to .470 NE.
My .470 Mbogo is a load mule for my Merkel DR.

quote:

With a 500-grain bullet, the 470 Mbogo has about a 50 fps MV advantage over the .475 A&M

Wow I am sure any animal hit with the faster round will be able to tell the difference.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

quote:

With a 500-grain bullet, the 470 Mbogo has about a 50 fps MV advantage over the .475 A&M

Wow I am sure any animal hit with the faster round will be able to tell the difference.

p dog shooter,

Thanks for taking the bait.
The point of it is that Dave Estergaard knew he had something more powerful than the .475 A&M but never BS-ed it like Atkinson and Marquart did theirs.

Another sugar-coating on this point is that the SAAMI .458 Lott gets an honest 2250 fps with 500-grainer in 24" barrel,
and the SAAMI .458 Winchester Magnum gets an honest 2200 fps with same 500-grainer in 24" barrel.

How will any animal hit with the faster round tell the difference ?
It is all in the mind of the Lottite, rhymes with Luddite.

.458 TRUMP
.458 Winchester Magnum Perfection
Nota bene: In maxima potentia parvum spatium.
Id venit et vicit omnis.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Debunking the hype of the .475 A&M:

Hello RIP
Thanks for the reply

All that you have stated is likely true .... but only the 475 A&M has such an interesting story that has been documented in print:

"Around 1960, Fred Barnes built himself a 475 A&M-chambered rifle, based
upon a sporterized Enfield action. ... that rifle weighed no more than 8 pounds. ...
his initial handloading combined stiff charges of IMR 3031 behind his 600-grain
bullets. His friends and a small group of well-wishers went to an informal
shooting range ... Fred sat down... [in a] sitting position. He took dead aim
at a the base of a small juniper tree, which was tenuously hanging on at the
top edge of a roadway cutbank."

"When Fred pulled the trigger, everyone was watching for the impact. The shot
went low. The tree was summarily uprooted! ... then as a group, they looked
around to f ind what Barn's reaction might be. There he was, located several
feet behind his original position lying on his back, arms out stretched, holding
his rifle above his head. Dust from the muzzle blast and his ignoble recoil-
induced slide (he had absorbed well over 110 foot-pounds of energy) was still
stirring when Fred asked, matter-of-factly, "Anybody want to buy a rifle?"
He found no takers."

F Barnes.
Cartridges of the World
10th Edition