In another message you were asking about the legality of large bores and mentioned brass for them-----I know nothing of bATF rules, so thought it best to start a new thread:

Brass shotshell cases in 12, 16, 20, 24, 28, 32, and 410 (36) gauges can be bought from Old Western Scrounger. They are made in Brazil by CBC and are BERDAN primed. OWS has the primers, but ....you know the hassle.

You mentioned that you have 50 BMG cases. These are appropriate for 16 Gauge shotshells. Removing about 6-hundredths off the head removes the taper and leaves the rim for the shotshell.The primer is drilled-out and bushed; then the base is faced-off in a lathe, removing about a third of the base; the pocket is drilled for a (large rifle ?) primer; and the case cut to length.

Obviously, you need to confirm the safety of all these measurements and methods!! I have not done this, but I have in my collection a 16 gauge empty hull that was made from a BMG case and the above steps are my GUESS as to how it was done. The dealer that sold it to me said that back in the early 1970s, the gun shows (in the upper midwest) had boxes of these cases for sale!

Good Luck

the_captn

OWS

What did the Howdah pistol shoot? Shot or a large bullet? All I recall is these firearms were last ditch defense agaisnt a tiger getting into the howday on the back of the hunting ele.

Cap'n Nemo,
Have you heard of Rocky Mountain Cartridge? They'll turn any cartridge you want, to your specs for that matter.
With the Howdah being low pressure these brass would be perfect I think.
www.rockymountaincartridge.com

Thanks for the link, there price on brass doesn't look all that bad and they even have some 577 pistol brass. All I've read about the origianl Howda's is most of them were a 577 bore. I seem to recall one article about a 16bore though. I have a lathe so I could always try to modify some. If I could keep it close to a standard 20ga, then reamers would be cheaper. I imaging that I could drill and bush the berdan primed 20 cases also.
lar.

Lars, this is starting to sound like an interesting project. Keep the details posted.

My other thought was to get a 20ga double and inset rifled choke tubes after cutting to length. It would make the final project lighter and smaller. I'm drafting a letter to the BATF, but want to find some pics and references to the original 577 Howda to show why I need one and it could be used for sporting purposes. I'm wondering if the rifled choke tubes would offer the same accuracy potential? Not that it would need to be able to hit more than a 5gal bucket at 50yds though. I've found some afordable 20ga rifled barrels. I'm thinking the 20ga brass would be the easiest to use with chambering reamers readily available. I'm wondering about loading dies though. If this is a low pressure round will I need to size the fired cases? I have a lathe and some basic skill running it so I'm thinking maybe I could try making my own dies. Dan at www.mountainmolds.com lives about 5min from me so I could probably talk him into making a bullet mold for me. I'm thinking that the 20ga choke tubes would be the easiest to do, but I'd want them to be flush mounted. I'm wondering about boreing out the primer pockets and fitting with a bushing for a large rifle primer, could I silver solder the bushings in place? Heat on the case head would be a bad thing, but on a low pressure round would it matter? Anybody have links for pics and information about the origianl Howdas?
Lar.

Still no reply from the BATF.
I was thinking about getting two of the EAA 45-70 doubles and useing one for the howda. Then atlest I would be under the 50 limit.
I did hear from a guy in Norway that has a 45-70 Howda in the works. He said he was taking it to the range for load developement, and plans on taking it to South Africa in June. He has a very extensive web page on mulitple Safaris.
www.calibros.com I think?
I've asked for pics and more details.
I'm wondering what a useful pistol grip design might be to handle large recoil. I contacted Herrets for Ideas.
Maybe a 400-500gn large meplat flatpoint around 1200 fps would be controllable and effective. And the smaller diameter of .458 vs 20bore might penetrate better.

Roger the one I have shoots a conical looking bullet and it is chambered in 577 Snider, I under stand that it is considered a last year model and was made aroundthe end of Tiger hunting, For awhile my father also had one of the 4 barrel models made by Lancaster, but don't remeber the round it fired, it was black powder though

Dave do you have any pics of yours that you could send?
idahobronco@aol.com
Heard back from Calibros, he shot 465gn cast up to 1400fps without any problems. Saur action with 45-70 bbl inserts and molded fiberglass pistol grip 10" bbls. The pics look great. I'll post them when I get a chance.
Says he after Giraffe in June.

I wish EAA would work faster.
A local shop got in two of the 45-70 bbl inserts, looks tempting, but I think I'll wait on the EAA double.

Lar,

I've had the urge for a howdah as well. The easy, legal cheap way is to get a double muzzleloading shotgun and cut it down. Front stuffers don't have all the BATF regulations that rear stuffers do. I've been thinking about a 12 bore charcol burner shooting round balls. Would be loads of fun.

I handled a real Howdah pistol about a year ago and sure wish I could have bought it.
If I remember correctly it is illegal to modify a long gun into a hand gun, which is why you cannot take a bolt action rifle and make a bolt action pistol... and I think there is something about smooth bore's in the law also, which is why no one still makes the Ithaca style auto burglar double bbl shotgun pistol.I think the larger the bore on the Howdah the better. Why not use 577 Nitro Brass cut down to the proper length. If you could get a double bbl shotgun manufacture to make a double bbl "pistol" action then It would be legal.

Looking at the BATF site, it should be legal with the $200 making tax paid and the appropriate paperwork. I may have to resend my letter to them.

This is a pic of Calibros' 45-70 Howda, I hope it comes through.
http://idahobronco.alloffroad.com/images/guns/gun.JPG

I tried to do the Pistol action thing with NEF a few years ago when they first came out with the Handi Rifle. I was going to convert them to Handi Pistols. I had my FFL at the time and could get them for $160. I bet I could have sold a pile of them, but NEF wouldn't talk to me on it.

I was wondering about the larger bore. Wouldn't the larger bore inhibit penetration? The overall bullet weight and velocity would have to be kept somewhat reasonable to be manageable in the field. Huge loads could be used for point blank range where you might want the most powerful load to work when there's only time for one point and shoot. But if you wanted to use it for hunting, then it would have to be controllable and reasonably accurate. I was thinking about a 400-500 gn bullet around 1200fps+. Maybe a .458 would penetrate better than a 20bore.
I did read an Austrailian magazine report on a Rigby 10Bore with steel jacketed slugs at moderate velocity, normal shotgun slug velocity? don't remember exactly, taking a Buff without any problems. Stuck in the offside under the hide, but it expired rather quickly.
I remember a report on the 475 and 500 Linegaughs where the extra frontal area on the 500 inhibited penetration on heavy game, until they went to the 500 long to get more velocity. so if a .475 Linebaugh can be used on everything from Buff to Elephant with a 400gn hardcast at 1350-1450, then the 45-70 sounds like it should work equally as well given proper bullet design.

Lar don't have any photos,will see if some one has a digital I can borrow, As far as brass its the standard Snider round, and I have found brass at Dixie Gun Works a couple of times

I think you can cut down 577 Nitro Brass to work in a 577 Snider, not sure, never done it.

Okay, another legalities question here. What if I used an antique shotgun for the platform to build up. Would it somehow be excempted because of the age and not needing a FFL to transfer it?