Hi Guys:

In my quest for a used double rifle I met this new gunsmith at the Lehigh Valley SCI convention last week. I knew he had built a few doubles, but his forte is custom bolt action Big Bores!

I stopped over his place and he showed me one of the custom rifles he built. I have never seen anything like this before and I want to give you guys a description of the gun to see what you think it's worth.

The barrel: Is 24 inches long, he said it is an european barrel, Luther Walter (spelling) or something. It is a half octogon half round barrel. the octogon ending at the end of the forearm. It has a raised rib with a flat top with cross lines engraved on it. It has gold front beed, and 2 flip up, one solid iron sight. The sights are built into the rib.

The receiver: Is a light grey color, almost looks like satin nickel. It has full beautifull engraving of a Dragon. The action is a Mauser, with a polished bolt handle and jeweled bolt. The floor plate is funky, you push a button and push up and the whole thing pops out, spring and all, that part I don't like.

Stock: Is outstanding, extra fancy grade walnut, hand checkered, cheek peace with shadow line, steel pistol grip. NO Rifle sling swivels. It has a Kickezze recoil pad and also has a Vias muzzle break installed.

The caliber is 458 Lott and The Dragonslayer is engraved on one side of the barrel. He said his friends wanted him to name the rifle. Hey who knows...LOL

So tell me if you can, what the hell do you think this thing is worth? If I do buy Dragonslayer I will post the pictures on this forum. But hell, I have a price, but I VALUE your opinions.

Let me know....

Jim P.

oh.. i thought from the begining of your post you found a DOUBLE in 458 lott... which would have a value, to me, of exactly squat.

but, a great looking bolt rifle, by a local smith... who knows... ANYWHERE from 1500 to 7500... depending on what he wants and what you'll pay...

myself, I would be more long the lines of 1200-2500, but ONLY if it fit me...

ask to shoot it a couple times, offer to pay for the ammo, and see if it doesn't work that desire out... if you love it... well, buy it?
jeffe

The reciever sound like French Grey. The floorplate sounds like an original mauser military, with the button added.
If it is standard length 98, I would be careful about the .458 Lott. Inspect the feedramp/lower lug recess to make sure too much metal was not removed from the front.

I'm no engraving expert, but I believe receivers are usually annealed prior to engraving. You might want to look into this, and make sure it was PROPERLY re-heat treated afterward. And KurtC raises a good point, regarding how exactly a 3.6" round was stuffed into a Mauser 98. Is there any possibility it could be an Enfield?

I'd like to see pics even if you don't buy it -- sounds interesting.

Todd

Hi Guys:

It is a Mauser Military floor plate setup. I am not sure about the action itself.

I do know the safety is a two stage not three and the bolt is locked when the safety is engaged.I would not know if to much metal was removed from the bottom of the bolt.

The engraving was done by a master engraver whos name I have see before, what the grey metal is, I don't know.

It is a beautiful rifle. What I don't like is, 1. no sling swivels, want em 2) I would like to add a ebony black tip in forearm, 3) Replace the BROWN kickeeze pad with a Pachmyar. He said he would have to charge me an additional $500 for all this work because he would have to refinish the stock, oil finish anyway, and re-blue the barrel. He is asking $2500.00 the way it is...

My thinking so far is, If I have to go $3K for this rifle, duhhhh is it worth it. Of corse I would have to shoot it first.. and maybe keep it the way it is...

Give me some opinions, thanks for advice so far.

Jim P.

PAHunter
Take the $3000.00 and put it in your DOUBLE RIFLE ACCOUNT and keep looking.
Check out www.champlinarms.com www.westleyrichards.com
www.monteywhitley.com he had an Army-Navy 450/400 that looks VERY good.
Do not buy any other rifles till you get your first double. Because after you do all that other stuff is just "bolt action trash".
Oh you might want to get a Blaser R93 as they take down and will fit in the same size case as a double, for those times you "have to use" a scoped rifle.

PAHunter,
From your description, I think the rifle is well worth $2,500. If it fits you O.K., you will have saved much time and aggravation in acquiring a custom rifle.

Nick
www.bigbores.com

JOHAN
No doubt a properly "tuned" Mauser is a great rifle. "Like" is a relative term. I "like" Weatherbys [and Blasers} because they always seem to work, out of the box, which seems to be a rare thing among current factory [and many custom] belted Mags.Where did Bell say he hated doubles? Bear in mind he hunted [poached?] elephants in open country on a ladder. No doubt he was a good shot. In his later years he said he thought the 308WCF would make a great elephant rifle. Just becaused he killed [poached?] a lot of elephants in open country does not make him a rifle expert, after all didn't he wire the two triggers of his 450/400 double rifle together to fire both bbls at the same time? How wise is that? Just maybe he was a wimp and could not take big rifle recoil, and was afraid to get close to his quary.Remind yourself of James Sutherland: "After experimenting with and using all kinds of rifles, I find the most effective to be the double .577 with a 750gr. bullet and a charge in axite powder equivalent to a hundred grains of cordite".
No doubt each man found what worked best for him in his environment, and his hunting methods. Just ask yourself, if you like to get close which would you chose?
As to the Blaser R93 and the Weatherbys I can only report my experience with them. The only rifles I really champion are doubles, as I feel they are the highest art of the hunters rifle. British doubles from about 1900 to say, around 1935 are the finest hunting rifles ever made. Nothing else even comes close. They were made in an era where man hunted for months at a time [no satelite phones, or quick rescue] in thick unexplored bush.
The main disadvantage to double rifles is their cost...If they were not so expensive many more people would try them and sing their praises.

JOHAN what rifles do you use?

Hi Guys:

Wow boys....lets all fight nice now....LOL

I will own a double rifle, sooner or later, I will connect with one I can afford. I keep on going up the power scale. I all ready have in the upper calibers... 300 RUM, 375 H&H, 416 Rem Mag, 458 Win Mag.... want to add 458 Lott.... and at least but not last maybe a double in a 500 NE.

Getting back to this 458 Lott custom. I asked Rich the gunsmith how much metal he took off the thumb at the bottom, he said the exact amount as the commercial Mark X actions. He said he uses all millitary Mauser actions for 90% of all his customs. He takes off just enough to make them feed reliable.

I have a pre 72 Sako Finnbear in 7mm mag in excellent condition that according to 23rd edition of Blue Book Gun Values is worth over a grand. I just may have to work a partial trade. I know he is interested in it.

Damn I hate to let collectables go.... yeah well, thanks for the opinions so far.

Jim P.

[ 03-22-2003, 08:05: Message edited by: PAHunter ]

Jim,

If you intend to hunt dangerous game with that Lott, at least check its feeding BEFORE you buy.

Firing it would be better still.

Sell the Sako on your own; you'll get a better deal.

George

N E 450 No2

If BELL poached elephant I might not know. But the laws during that time gave much space to do your own judgements. I some african countries there is still a difference between law and common practice

I use and own only bolt action rifles. The only push feed I have is a Ed Brown 702 in 300wby, the rest are commercial mausers etc. ZG-47, BRNO 21 and husquarna 640. I have owned quite alot of different bolt action rifles including your favorites. I have also owned two kipplauf rifles and falling block rifle and drillings.

I like the 98 since they always works well and are reliable. The 98's are also very classic firearms.

I have to say that doubles are nice traditional rifle, I have used two during a period and they both worked well. Doubles are good some, but I think they are specialized for close range.

I hope this keeps you satisfied for some time
/ JOHAN

PAHunter

Find out very carefully on what this rifle is built on and how it it's done. Who is the smith?

Opening a standard 98 for a 458 Lott can be done. I would prefer to go for a long action and not trying to open up a standard lenght. I would prefer a high quality action.

What is your budget for a big bore rifle?

/ JOHAN

Custom rifle? The Dragon slayer? 458 Lott? I had thought you talking about JJ Hack's new DGR! That was the "unofficial" name of his new custom 458 Lott rifle, I believe built by John Ricks. ~~~Suluuq

Hi Johan:

I believe it is a long action Mauser. I do know he builds 404's 375"s and others on this military action.

The smith is Rich Shoemaker, he is also a hunting consultant for Trek Africa Safaris.

The amount of African game he has collected is astounding, I mean like over 50 animals, including the big 5 and many many plains game.

Regards... Jim P.

Hi Rusty:

Well I do believe this Deagon Slayer rifle is first in line....LOL It was built back in 96 or 97 by Rich. He did take it to Africa to shoot am Eland, but had one of his other rifles in his hands when the opportunity arrived.

Rich also does fabulous custom black powder rifles and pistols, even making the presentation boxes for the pistols.

The beauty of his custom stocks and finish have to be seen.

Dunno.... still debating..

Budget for a rifle....LOL... who knows.

Jim P.