505 Gibbs Load Data

I don't shoot a 505 Gibbs, but Phil Schoemacher had an article on the 505 a few years back in Handloader, may have been the August 99 issue, but not sure on that.

As far as CH4D dies, I got a set for my 500 Jeffrey, and aren't that happy with them. The seater won't put a crimp on a loaded round, and I had to lap out the throat, as it was .505", instead of .510".

You should also confirm their pricing, on the web, the 500 Jeffrey dies are listed as $130, but I was charged $150 for mine.

The other thing about CH4D is they use a 1"-14 body on the big bores, so you'll need a rockchucker, or other 1 1/4"-12 die, and a reducer bushing. The other other thing is the Rockchucker is really too short for somehting as long as the Gibbs, so you'd be better off with a Redding ultramag press.

There are a few folks here who shoot 505's, so you should see some posts with data. You might also want to do a search for 505 Gibbs in the big bore forum, and set the date for last years threads, there should be a few.

Posts: 7213 | Location: Alaska | Registered: 27 February 2001

Ignored post by Paul H posted

one of us

posted

Paul
Thanks for the information. I have a Rockchucker press. I am disappointed that it is too short.

Concerning the CH4D dies. Where you able to make them work? The price difference between CH4D and RCBS is substantial. I mean, if the dies don't work then they aren't worth the savings. But, if they can be made to work........

I will check on the past years threads for load data.

Thanks again for your advise.
Roger

Posts: 1634 | Location: Washington State | Registered: 29 December 2002

Ignored post by Scrollcutter posted

<500 Nitro>

posted

Scrollcutter,

I'll list load data for the 505 Gibbs within 24 hours.

I may also have a solution for using the dies on your press.
Re CH versus RCBS, I have generally NOT liked the finish on the CH dies
but they have worked for me in other calibres. I have RCBS dies in 505 Gibbs.
Will be back soon.

500 Nitro

<500 Nitro>

posted

Scrollcutter,

505 Load Data.
All use Bertram Brass, Fed 215 Magnum Primer, All are Woodleigh Bullets. NONE of these loads were crimped.
ALL Powder listed below is AI Powder which is made in Australia by ADI. I BELIEVE that ADI make
Hogdon Powder (PLEASE CHECK with someone in the US).

ADI 2213SC is listed in the ADI Book as having an approximate burning rate of Hogdon H4831.

Powder Grains Bullet Grain Velocity (CHRONOGRAPHED)
ADI 2213 SC 125 525 WB SN 2064, 2099
ADI 2213 SC 125 525 WB SN 2126, 2132 (Different Powder Batch and other factors)
ADI 2213 SC 122 600 WB SN 2060, 2058, 2065, 2038

The above are NOT the hottest loads I have used in my gun but still use the usual relaoding precautions
and work up to these loads as your 505Gibbs may be totally different to mine.

With your short press, if you can get the dies to screw in you can still load the cartridges but you may have to unscrw the seating die each time to get the bullet in.

Catridges of the World and A Squares Any Shot You Want also has load data fr the 505 Gibbs.

Hope this helps. Email me if you want any help or advice and good luck.

500 Nitro

Nitroman

one of us

posted

Scrollcutter,

If you don't mind taking a little extra time you can make the RCBS presses work for you. I reload .500 A-Sq in an RCBS Partner, their least expensive unit. I place the bullet on top of the cartridge and holding all between my fingers insert it up into the die. Once you get the hang of it you don't even notice it and it won't slow you down.

Posts: 1844 | Location: Southwest Alaska | Registered: 28 February 2001

Ignored post by Nitroman posted

45nut

one of us

posted

gents
Heard the new supreme model of the RC may be taller than the "old" model. Hope to get one soon for my 500A2. 45nut

Posts: 538 | Location: elsewhere | Registered: 07 July 2001

Ignored post by 45nut posted

Robgunbuilder

one of us

posted

My suggested starting load is 118 grs of IMR4831 and a 525 grain 505 woodleigh. IMR4831 is very forgiving in big cases and it's hard to get into overpressure situations. This is a good place to start and you can just keep going up in IMR4831 till you hit "sticky bolt lift". I've found the 505 Gibbs to be pretty foregiving.-Rob

Posts: 6314 | Location: Las Vegas,NV | Registered: 10 January 2001

Ignored post by Robgunbuilder posted

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posted

Thanks to everyone for their suggestions.

I'll probably chicken out before I get to "sticky bolt loads".
Seriously, I am as concerned with underloading the slow powders in a big case.
I will try the 118 grain load of 4831.
Thanks again,
Roger

Posts: 1634 | Location: Washington State | Registered: 29 December 2002

Ignored post by Scrollcutter posted

FEhrenford

new member

posted

So far I've tried 4831 but had misfires and hangfires in cold weather. Have since switched to Re 15. I also use Puff-lon as a filler to keep the powder in the right end of the case. 90 grains is a good place to start although I'm shooting my 575 gas check not a Woodleigh.
Good luck Frank

Posts: 1 | Location: cody wyoming | Registered: 08 March 2003

Ignored post by FEhrenford posted

Paul H

Moderator

posted

quote:
Originally posted by Scrollcutter:
Paul
Thanks for the information. I have a Rockchucker press. I am disappointed that it is too short.

Concerning the CH4D dies. Where you able to make them work? The price difference between CH4D and RCBS is substantial. I mean, if the dies don't work then they aren't worth the savings. But, if they can be made to work........

I will check on the past years threads for load data.

Thanks again for your advise.
Roger

The CH4D dies can be made to work. Actually, I should send my seater back with a fired case, as I won't have time to shoot it for a few weeks.

If you have problems with the dies, they will make them right. That said, I'm sick of recieving items that won't work as delivered.

Also, you can use the Rockchucker, provided it has the larger thread and uses the reducer bushing. But, you'll have to put the bullet into the seater before sliding the case into the shellholder.

Posts: 7213 | Location: Alaska | Registered: 27 February 2001

Ignored post by Paul H posted

one of us

posted

I think I will give the CH4D dies a shot. I will try to send them a fireformed case from my chamber. Maybe that will help.

When I began reloading,(35+ years) it would have been inconcievable to me that I would have to load the bullet into the seating die before inserting the case into the shell holder. The press just swallowed my 357 Magnum brass.

That's what is great about firearms and reloading. Always something new and interesting to play with.

Posts: 1634 | Location: Washington State | Registered: 29 December 2002

Ignored post by Scrollcutter posted

Atkinson

one of us

posted

The problem is getting them out sometimes you have to unscrew the die...

I would simply buy a RCBS A-2 press for $125. and be done with it...It will work with 50 MG...I have the single stage A-2...

Posts: 42321 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000

Ignored post by Atkinson posted

Wildcatter

one of us

posted

quote:
Originally posted by 500 Nitro:
Scrollcutter,

505 Load Data.
All use Bertram Brass, Fed 215 Magnum Primer, All are Woodleigh Bullets. NONE of these loads were crimped.
ALL Powder listed below is AI Powder which is made in Australia by ADI. I BELIEVE that ADI make
Hogdon Powder (PLEASE CHECK with someone in the US).

ADI 2213SC is listed in the ADI Book as having an approximate burning rate of Hogdon H4831.

Powder Grains Bullet Grain Velocity (CHRONOGRAPHED)
ADI 2213 SC 125 525 WB SN 2064, 2099
ADI 2213 SC 125 525 WB SN 2126, 2132 (Different Powder Batch and other factors)
ADI 2213 SC 122 600 WB SN 2060, 2058, 2065, 2038

The above are NOT the hottest loads I have used in my gun but still use the usual relaoding precautions
and work up to these loads as your 505Gibbs may be totally different to mine.

With your short press, if you can get the dies to screw in you can still load the cartridges but you may have to unscrw the seating die each time to get the bullet in.

Catridges of the World and A Squares Any Shot You Want also has load data fr the 505 Gibbs.

Hope this helps. Email me if you want any help or advice and good luck.

500 Nitro

What is the 505 truely capable of. 2000-2100 fps seems a little slow for the amount of powder utilized. I asume these are starting loads?

Thanks for some insight,

...Catter

Posts: 789 | Location: Central Texas, U.S. | Registered: 20 December 2001

Ignored post by Wildcatter posted

Paul H

Moderator

posted

quote:
Originally posted by Wildcatter:
[QBWhat is the 505 truely capable of. 2000-2100 fps seems a little slow for the amount of powder utilized. I asume these are starting loads?

Thanks for some insight,

...Catter[/QB]

I would imagine it should be capable of driving a 600 gr bullet 2600-2700 fps, if loaded to 60 Kpsi. The question is what actions are strong enough to take such loads?

Posts: 7213 | Location: Alaska | Registered: 27 February 2001

Ignored post by Paul H posted

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posted

I don't think I would be able to handle a sporter weight rifle loaded to that extreme.

I haven't fired the 505 yet. I am looking forward to it, but I don't have a lot of experience with a cartridge of this stature. I do have a 9# 458, and fire it occasionally. When I first started shooting the 458 I just worked up in power gradually.

I don't know how that will compare with my 12# 505, but I will follow the same loading proceedure as with the 458. I think that I will start out with the 525 Woodleigh at about 2100 fps. The recoil should compare to the 458............I think.
Roger

Posts: 1634 | Location: Washington State | Registered: 29 December 2002

Ignored post by Scrollcutter posted

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posted

By the way, I think factory loads are in the 2300-2400 fps catagory. This is with 525 grain softs or solids.
Roger

Posts: 1634 | Location: Washington State | Registered: 29 December 2002

Ignored post by Scrollcutter posted

<500 Nitro>

posted

Wildcatter (and others),

In answer to your questions, the load data I provided was loads that Scrollcutter
could SAFELY use / start with in his 505 so yes, they are slightly slower.
In view of his later posts "I haven't fired the 505 yet", I am glad I did provide
starting loads. IMHO, the worst thing for a NEW Big Bore Shooter is to scare them off
with "Visitor" loads !!!

Secondly, the barrel length on my gun is only 23 1/8" which has a bearing on the velocity.
It is also an Original 505 Gibbs Magnum mauser action by George Gibbs and I tend not to
push my original guns hard for obvious reasons.

The ORIGINAL FACTORY LOAD was said to be 2300 fps, however my gun was used to test
some original factory rounds 20 years ago and they didn't quite get to 2300 fps !!!
ALL of the English Velocities tend to be HIGH, partly because the barrel lengths used on test guns
were longer than the actual guns.

MY hunting loads in this gun with 525gm bullets are between 2200 and 2280 fps and they kill
plenty quick enough at this speed.

IMHO, Anyone who would like to drive a 600 gr bullet at 2600-2700 fps and loaded to 60 Kpsi is trying for something that I don't think is required for todays game. IMHO, 2400fps is any 500+ calibre is plenty.

An ORIGINAL Magnum Mauser action would probably hold 60 Kpsi but for how long, I'll leave that to
the others on the forum / gunsmith's such as Rodgunbuilder/Atkinson etc.

Hope this answers some of your queries.

500 Nitro

Robgunbuilder

one of us

posted

The 505 Gibbs at anything over 2300 FPS is a excellent killer from all accounts. No need to crank it up over 2400fps. I have no personal interest in pushing any Mauser based action over 55KPSI myself. When I want more power, I go up in bullet weight and diameter. Thats why the .600 Overkill should be limited to 900 grs at 2400fps.-Rob

Posts: 6314 | Location: Las Vegas,NV | Registered: 10 January 2001

Ignored post by Robgunbuilder posted

posted

Hey Robgunbuilder !!

I hope you could give me answers to that if the .505 Gibbs is capable of velocities in that departement,,26-2700 fps@600 grain bullet ?
And if a CZ-550,,MODIFIED would hold up against it ?

Thomas M

one of us

posted

I am allso intrested in learning how much pressure the CZ550 can take since Im getting a 338 Lapua Magnum barrel for mine.

If I eventyally learn to shoot my 450 Rigby Im thinking about the 500 A2. Is't this round a high pressure round allso and when should one start to worry about high pressures. Is 55k the limit for the CZ?

(Talked to my smith today and he said my new barrels (450 and 338)may be ready till the weekend [Big Grin]

)

Posts: 240 | Location: Finland | Registered: 16 July 2002

Ignored post by Thomas M posted

<500 Nitro>

posted

Per577

Have had the 600gn bullet up to 2100 fps so far with some more testing to be done.

The 600gn bullet kills quickly at 2100 fps and I would think that at higher velocities
(22 - 2300fps) it may have an even greater effect but I do agree with Rob that by going
to a heavier bullet weight their is no need to go to much higher velocities than 2300 - 2400 fps

One thing I have noticed is that going to the absolute Max in velocities has a big bearing
on how long it takes you to fire a 2nd shot - and in most situations I like to be able to recover
from the recoil and reload and take the 2nd shot quickly.

500 Nitro

one of us

posted

500Nitro
Sounds like the voice of reason and experience.

Another standard for me is low pressure. Why load it up beyond the factory loads?

Middle age has tempered my reason. I don't try for the highest possible velocity in a particular cartridge anymore.

Roger

Posts: 1634 | Location: Washington State | Registered: 29 December 2002

Ignored post by Scrollcutter posted

<500 Nitro>

posted

Scrollcutter,

Thanks.

The person who first took me big game hunting gave me a couple of clear instructions.
Once you start shooting at an animal (in this case Asian Buffalo), keep shooting until it is down
and dead before shooting at any others. Therefore getting at least 2 shots into it quickly became important.
(However I do subscribe to the theory of shot placement being FAR more important than volume of lead fired
at animal !!!)

I have however had quite a few discussions with experienced people that say if the animal is well hit in the vitals
with the first shot it can be better to not put any more in as it increases the adrenalin.

One other reason I don't try for the highest possible velocity is due to the very large temperature increases we have between states here. Where I am it is Winter and 10 - 20 degrees yet where I hunt Buffalo etc it is 35 - 45 degrees.
(Which was exactly the case last year). As such I don't want to get to half way across the country and find all my
ammo is causing pressure problems.

500 Nitro

Nickudu

Moderator

posted

http://www.accuratereloading.com/505gibbs.html

Posts: 11017 | Registered: 14 December 2000

Ignored post by Nickudu posted