These two 500gr .475 Barnes bullets were recovered from my buffalo last summer in the Dande.

with all the talk going around about various "better" bullets I still find the good old Barnes pretty hard to beat.

These came lout of my .470NE Searcy at about 2150FPS.

The distance was roughly 100yards. The buff was quartering on fairly hard. The X bullet enterd just behind the right shoulder and was found under the hide on the oposite side just behind the ribs.

The solid hit the buff as he turned to run striking him about 6 inches aft of the first bullet hole, behind the shoulder and went through bith lungs and was founs under the hide on the oposite side about where the neck and shoulder meet half way up.

The X weighs 498grs and the solid as you can see lost no weight.



Here is a picture of where I found the X bullet. It is hard to see but if you look right in the middle of that patch of pink muscle you'll see it.

Great bullet performance.
What load are you using for pigs?

Same for right now as these are the only load I've got put together at the moment.

97grs of H4350. Bell cases Federal 215 Primer.

They do put a B slap on a hog.

I'd like to start using cheaper Hawk bullets in the thin jacket. Have you got a recipe for them?

I'm guessing about 108grs of IMR 4831 should be pretty close for a 2150 load.

With the Hawks you have 2 choices, use 500grain bullets or use 350 grain bullets. I would start with the same powder charge that regulates with the 500 grainers. The 350 grain bullets should be going between 2300 and 2400fps. They will have less recoil. Either the .025 jkt or the .035 jkt should work.

Are we talking about Hawk Deadsofts? I've used them in my Lott (and my .416)-- 500 grains right at about 2300 fps, and the only one I have recovered, completely shed its lead. I'm not deriding these bullets as I recovered it from the hog that was standing behind the one I was shooting, so it blasted through the first hog, and took out the one behind it as well, severing the spinal chord at the base of the skull and ending up just under the skin on the off side. The recovered bullet, sans lead had opened up to nearly twice its original size. So, they work, but I like to think that it held together through the first hog.

If you find a way to make the Hawk's shoot in your Searcy let me know. I tried them in two different Searcy 470's and had the same problems in both. I use cast bullets and 350g pistol bullets now for practice. Even killed some hogs with the lead loads. Nice picks on the XLC's. These are the first I have seen on Buffalo. I have some loaded for this years trip but not sure if I wanted to try them. After your photos I think they might get some use. The shoot well in my rifle.

108 grs. of IMR-4831 will give you 2245 FPS, that is Butch's regulation load...

I have found the Barnes X bullets always work perfectly on Buffalo, however I have had about 4 instances wherein the didn't work so hot on smaller animals with lesser calibers...

I have had more failures with Hawk bullets than with any other bullet I have used..I killed about 20 some odd plainsgame with a 338 and Hawks heavest jacket and they all blew apart..Same with the 175 gr. 7x57 heavy jacket bullet on a Spike buck Muledeer, it came completely apart...The Hawk is a pretty worthless bullet IMO based on the above...however they would probably work well enough at very slow velocity such as in a 45-70 or 45-90, maybe in some double rifle calibers at lower velocities, don't know and as Long as Woodleigh is in business I won't know..I am not a forgiving soul on bullet failure.

Basically the Hawk is nothing more that an old time bullet controlled by soft copper, lead and jacket thickness, the wheel re-invented, except this wheel never did work from the beginning.

surestrike:

Thanks for the pictures ...very good performance. Did you know Barnes is now making a .474 TSX 500 grain bullet?

I used the 500 grain .458 TSX in my Lott last year, at 2250 fps, only recovered one bullet from a Buff..front on shoulder shot that completed penetrated breaking the back leg..came to rest against the hide weighed 499 grains and mushroomed like your "X".

Ray has got me using the North Fork Cup Points now...will be using those in my 470 NE this July on Buff. Been using H4831sc in my 470 NE.

I have used the Hawk 285 gr .035 jkt in my 9,3x74R on deer, wild pigs and Zim Impala. It was to0 be my first shot in leopard.
I have used the 300 gr Hawk .025jkt in my 450/400 3 1/4" on deer and wild pigs, and have killed one wild pig with the Hawk 400 gr .035 jkt in my 450/400.
Hawk bullets have given me the highest percentage of drop to the shot kills of any bullet.
My muzzle velocities have been under 2400fps.
The 400gr Hawk velocity was @ 2150fps.

I think the Hawk bullets are the BEST choice for using an ELEPHANT rifle for lessor big game.

Surestrike,

It looks like that X bullet worked perfectly. However, not to be critical but I would be concerned about why that solid did not exit. If the shot had been pure Texas heart shot, it looks like the Barnes solid would not have reached the vitals.

From my .500 Nitro I got a on average 5 1/2 feet of penetration in buff and ele with flat nose solids. Barnes round nose solids stopped on average 20" shallower than the flat nose solids.

A perfect compromise which makes life simple is the North Fork cup nose solid. It penetrates about 10" more deeply than the Barnes RN in my experience.

Bingo, 500 grs. you hit it spot on...my experience with the flat nose solids and cup points on Buffalo are exactly as you state...

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
Surestrike,

It looks like that X bullet worked perfectly. However, not to be critical but I would be concerned about why that solid did not exit. If the shot had been pure Texas heart shot, it looks like the Barnes solid would not have reached the vitals.

From my .500 Nitro I got a on average 5 1/2 feet of penetration in buff and ele with flat nose solids. Barnes round nose solids stopped on average 20" shallower than the flat nose solids.

A perfect compromise which makes life simple is the North Fork cup nose solid. It penetrates about 10" more deeply than the Barnes RN in my experience.

Yep, good advice.
I am pretty sure the Flat Point/Flat Nose and the Cup Point will not be as prone to tumble, hence be more reliable, whether there is any supercavitation involved or not with the FN/SuperPenetrator.

The Barnes Round Nose solid of brass is longer too than the copper monometal solids, and that might add to instability.

BTW,
A friend has a 470 Capstick and wants to test exactly these two bullets at 2300 fps in my stop box (alternating 15/32" plywood and 6" thick water bags).

I will report back on this, see if the Barnes round nose brass solid tumbles more frequently than an FN copper solid made by GSC, both are 500 grainers.

This is not live game penetration, but at least it is a repeatable test of a pretty consistent medium of some sort.

I had planned to do this anyway, FWIW. Just curious.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
BTW,
A friend has a 470 Capstick and wants to test exactly these two bullets at 2300 fps in my stop box

It would be interesting to see how penetration of bullets from the Smirkel in .470 NE compare to the 470 capstick.

500groans,
I really don't care to shoot those bullets in my Merkel (please note your inadvertent spelling boo boo). I still have some GSC HV and FN bullets that serve there.

I could load them down to 2150 fps in my .470 Capstick, however. Do you still have your 14 pound .470 Capstick with a muzzle brake? If so, whatever for???

470 Capstick in VZ24:



Weighs in at about 10.5 pounds. Enjoyed a trip over the pond last year.

I suppose I could improve it by dumping that dead English tree in favor of some recycled Coke bottles melted together.

500groans,
Now I am going to teach you how one admits that he was wrong:

Excuse me. I must have been confused about the weight and muzzle break. Maybe it was the .585 Nyati that was corpulent and braked?

Let the record show that 500grains' .470 Capstick currently weighs only 10.5 pounds and does not currently sport a muzzle break. So it is written.

I had a threaded cap made for the .585 Nyati, and was pleasantly surprised that the recoil did not increase a lot as a result. That probably means the break was not an optimal design in the first place, or it could mean my brain was so jostled it could not tell the diff.

My personal weight limit for packing a rifle long distance seems to be in the 11 pound range. I wish I had taken my Heym .600 elephant hunting, but at 14.75 pounds, plus the recoil, pluse the desire to spend those funds on a hunt, made me turn away from that path.

Too bad you will not be testing out the Smirkel.

500grains,
I have fired the 500 grain XLC in the Merkel. I do have a RL-15 load for it that was around 2175 fps. I can do that. But I do not have a "Smirkel." Would a Merkel be O.K.? I might be able to do that.

I do not have any blue coated solids however. My friend has a precious few of the blue coated solids, and I might be able to talk him out of a few ...

He and I are planning a Tanzania buffalo hunt and he might be convinced to get a different solid.

Very perceptive of you to point out the questionable solid performance above. I concur.

That solid was going sideways, bent slightly and had the blue rubbed off one side and not the other. Tumbled soon after entry, it would seem to me. A flat nose would be more likely to stay straight, nose first.

The X weighs 498grs and the solid as you can see lost no weight.



Excellent performance by the XLC. The solid should have exited, but did not. Provocative, what?

I have some of the Barnes .474" brass uncoated solids, but none of the coated ones. If you want to use some of the uncoated ones in this test for comparison, just let me know. (It's not like I would go hunting with a RN bullet anyway...)

I must agree with you all on the comments about the solid. I was a bit amazed that it didn't exit. Especially after hitting no major bone.

I would dearly love to try some North Fork cup points however they are not available at the present time.

I'll definatly give the new Barnes.475 TSX and bluff nosed solids a try. However they are not on the barnes web site. Where do you find them?

As far as hawk bullets go I'd only use them for hogs and such never big game. Just play bullets.

As far as the round nose solids go I did have a very good experience with them on elephant last year getting two complete pass throughs on a side brain shot. (Well one side brain shot and one not quite a side brain shot ).

surestrike:

I purchased my .474 500 gr. TSX and Banded Solids directly from Barnes. According to Barnes they have not been out in the market as of yet...I think they said Federal was testing them.

You can purchase from Barnes but as of last week they were out of stock. Barnes did said to call back next week to see when in the production schedule... as they may be making another production run in the next several weeks.

If you want to try the .474 500 gr. TSX I have an extra box (unopened) of 20??

I wish Mike at North Fork would make another run of Cup Points soon...I am down to one box that I am saving for my hunt the end of July...none left to practice with!

jjs,

Thank you for the offer my friend. I'll hold off for now as I'm in no hurry and have no major hunts planed for this year. Thank you for the offer!